Who is the pro-evoting 'Committee of ...

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Author Message   From the Mailbag Voting Rights Forum Participant Username: Mailbag Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2005 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 7:02 am:        Hope you can help with this one. There is a powerful regional group called the Commitee of Seventy which claims that: "Seventy cares very deeply about educating citizens, protecting their voting rights and driving up voter participation – all of which are the foundation of better government." Yet they have a number of articles on their website supporting electronic voting with such howlers as "Since votes are computed electronically, their reliability is beyond dispute": http://www.seventy.org/nycu/1998/electric.html They also offer a detailed refutation of the value of a paper audit trail: http://www.seventy.org/nycu/2004/ThePaperTrail.html From the outside it is impossible to determine if they are simply tragically misinformed or ... The misinformation being spread by this group is detrimental to the cause of honest and transparent elections in my region. Any suggestions on how to proceed would be appreciated. Thanks In Advance! E.A. - Philadelphia, PA   Bev Harris Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 2170 Registered: 12-2004 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 7:05 am:        Info on their Web domain, seventy.org: Domain ID:D9041645-LROR Domain Name:SEVENTY.ORG Created On:12-Aug-1999 14:43:28 UTC Last Updated On:30-Jul-2005 03:18:25 UTC Expiration Date:12-Aug-2007 14:43:15 UTC Sponsoring Registrar:Network Solutions LLC (R63-LROR) Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED Registrant ID:35017330-NSI Registrant Name:Committee of Seventy Registrant Organization:Committee of Seventy Registrant Street1:2 Penn Center Registrant Street2:Suite 770 Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Philadelphia Registrant State/Province:PA Registrant Postal Code:19102 Registrant Country:US Registrant Phone:+1.2155573600 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX: Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:arwasson@laureltech.net Admin ID:35017330-NSI Admin Name:Committee of Seventy Admin Organization:Committee of Seventy Admin Street1:2 Penn Center Admin Street2:Suite 770 Admin Street3: Admin City:Philadelphia Admin State/Province:PA Admin Postal Code:19102 Admin Country:US Admin Phone:+1.2155573600 Admin Phone Ext.: Admin FAX: Admin FAX Ext.: Admin Email:arwasson@laureltech.net Tech ID:35017330-NSI   Bev Harris Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 2171 Registered: 12-2004 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 7:07 am:        From archive.org, this information found: "founded in 1904" The Committee of Seventy Two Penn Center Plaza, Suite 770 15th Street and JFK Boulevard Philadelphia, PA 19102 For more information: call (215) 557-3600 fax (215) 557-3608 email seventy@libertynet.org "Seventy's members are drawn from among the Philadelphia region's business, professional, and academic leaders. They contribute their time and financial support to Seventy's vision of good government. " Chair David T. Sykes, Esq. Duane Morris & Heckscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vice-Chairs Mr. Anthony B. Creamer III, CPA Arthur Andersen LLP Richard C. Glazer, Esq. Cozen & O’Connor Stephanie A. Middleton, Esq. CIGNA Corporation William H. Schorling, Esq. Klett Lieber Rooney & Schorling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Treasurer Mr. Ludlow Miller PNC Bank -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Executive Board John N. Ake, Esq. Ballard Spahr Andrews & Ingersoll Thomas A. Allen, Esq. White and Williams Herbert Bass, Esq. Fox Rothschild O’Brien & Frankel Rolin P. Bissell, Esq. Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis David C. Franceski, Jr., Esq. Stradley, Ronon, Stevens & Young Amy B. Ginensky, Esq. Dechert Price & Rhoads Paul C. Heintz, Esq. Obermayer Rebmann Maxwell & Hippel Mr. Arthur Klein Rittenhouse Foundation Mary E. Kohart, Esq. Drinker Biddle & Reath Michael H. Reed, Esq. Pepper Hamilton Howard D. Scher, Esq. Montgomery, McCracken, Walker & Rhoads Mr. Allan Schimmel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- General Membership David C. Auten, Esq. Reed Smith Shaw & McClay Donald Beckman, Esq. Saul Ewing Remick & Saul Thomas J. Bender, Jr., Esq. Buchanan Ingersoll Aaron D. Blumberg, Esq. Litvin Blumberg Matusow & Young Mr. George V. Bochanski, Jr. Rohm and Haas Thomas R. Bond, Esq. Marshall Dennehy Warner Coleman & Goggin Carter R. Buller, Esq. Montgomery McCracken Walker & Rhoads Mr. W. W. Keen Butcher Mr. John Carter Independence Seaport Museum John S. Child, Jr., Esq. Dann Dorfman Herrell & Skillman Julia Ann Conover, Esq. Verizon Communications Raymond T. Cullen, Esq. Todd D. Cutler, Esq. PECO Energy Patricia Decarlo, Esq. Norris Square Civic Association Robert J. Dudzinsky, CPA BDO Seidman Edward M. Dunham, Jr., Esq. Duane Morris & Heckscher Saul S. Epstein, Esq. Cyberplace, Inc. Sheldon H. Eveloff, CPA Goldenberg Rosenthal Michael A. Fitts, Esq. University of Pennsylvania Law School Abraham H. Frumkin, Esq. Duane Morris & Heckscher Robert G. Fryling, Esq. Blank Rome Comisky & McCauley Richard T Gieryn, Jr., Esq. ACE USA David E. Glassberg, Esq. Wolf Block Schorr & Solis-Cohen John Francis Gough, Esq. Montgomery, McCracken, Walker & Rhoads Stephen J. Harmelin, Esq. Dilworth Paxson Robert L. Henn, Esq. Fidelity National Title Insurance Co. C. Lawrence Holmes, Esq. Dilworth Paxson Mr. Graham Humes Timothy Hunter, Esq. Radian Guaranty, Inc. Mr. Jeffrey H. Jacoby FMC Corporation Mr. Immanuel K. John, CPA Grant Thornton LLP Jerome Kaplan, Esq. Abrahams, Loewenstein, Bushman & Kauffman Lauri A. Kavulich, Esq. Reger & Rizzo Mr. John B. Kelly, III Public Financial Management Mr. Ted Kirsch Philadelphia Federation of Teachers Eric Kraeutler Morgan Lewis & Bockius Leon A. Larosa, Jr., CPA Deloitte & Touche William Leonard, Esq. Schnader Harrison Segal & Lewis Mr. Richard B. Light, Jr. Mr. Howard M. Magen Isdaner & Company Mr. Victor C. Mather, II Mather & Company Ms. Susan A. Maxman Susan Maxman & Partners Architects John F. Meigs, Esq. Saul Ewing Remick & Saul Leslie Ann Miller, Esq. McKissock & Hoffman Stephen W. Miller, Esq. Manta and Welge Anthony S. Minisi, Esq. Wolf Block Schorr & Solis-Cohen Mr. J. Brian Munroe SmithKline Beecham Daniel I. Murphy, Esq. Ronald M. Neifield, Esq. The Pep Boys – Manny, Moe and Jack Arthur E. Newbold, IV, Esq. Dechert Price & Rhoads Mr. Thomas B. O’Rourke First Union National Bank James A. A. Pabarue, Esq. Christie Pabarue Mortensen & Young A. Michael Pratt, Esq. Pepper Hamilton David E. Prewitt, Esq. Bennett, Bricklin & Saltzburg Mr. Walter L. Rubel Prudential Securities Incorporated Anita Santos, Esq. Philadelphia Legal Assistance Ms. Carol R. Scheman University of Pennsylvania Thomas R. Schmuhl, Esq. Duane Morris & Heckscher Mr. Donn G. Scott First Union National Bank Michael J. Semes, Esq. PricewaterhouseCoopers Mr. Newbold Strong Smith Barney & Co. John S. Summers, Esq. Hangley, Aronchick, Segal & Pudlin Paul A. Tufano Independence Blue Cross Robert I. Tuteur, Esq. Mesirov Gelman Jaffe Cramer & Jamieson David Unkovic Saul Ewing Remick & Saul Matthew A. White, Esq. Wolf Block Schorr & Solis-Cohen Joseph D. Zulli, Esq. Sun Company, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Associate Members David Abrams, Esq. Dilworth Paxson Pierce Buller, Esq. Dilworth Paxson Peggy Greenfeld, Esq. Klett Lieber Rooney & Schorling William Harrington, Esq. Duane Morris & Heckscher Elizabeth Evert Orr David Perry, Esq. Blank Rome Comisky & McCauley Daniel Rhynhart, Esq. Blank Rome Comisky & McCauley David Snyder Fox Rothschild O’Brien & Frankel Rhonda Thomas, Esq. Klett Lieber Rooney & Schorling   Bev Harris Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 2172 Registered: 12-2004 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 7:22 am:        The Bass and Rothschild names are of some interest. Tracing back the string of acquisitions of Mom & Pop election companies, which took place during the 1980s (see Chapter 8, Black Box Voting book)) -- an obvious strategy to consolidate ownership of the dozens of small companies into the hands of a few Texas powerbrokers -- you'll find that BRC (later acquired by ES&S) was the acquirer. BRC, which stood for Business Records Corp, and a public entity, Cronus Industries, were essentially the same entity. When you trace the ownership of BRC and Cronus, you'll run into an investment firm for the Texas-based Bass brothers (a couple of billionaires) and an investment entity connected with the Rothschilds. Lynn Landes and I worked on running this down back in 2002; I no longer have the corporate family tree for Cronus/BRC on this Web site, by you can find some information on Lynn Landes's site, http://www.ecotalk.org. So, some connection to Bass brothers of Texas and some connection to Rothschild in BRC, which was acquired by ES&S with some stock retained by original BRC owners. It would be interesting if there is a connection with ES&S. Note that ES&S has some ownership by the Omaha World-Herald and it, which in turn has some ownership in McCarthy Group (which also owns a chunk of ES&S, follow the bouncing ball). I found an old news article that said that in the 1997 acquisition of BRC by ES&S, a chunk of stock in ES&S was awarded to the original owners of BRC. Now, if the BRC people awarded stock include the original investments from Bass and Rothschild, and they are also in this pro-evoting group, that would tell a small story. We should bear in mind, however, that these folks are so rich that they have a bazillion things they're invested in. For people that rich, it isn't always accurate to draw lines tying one activity to another. I would wonder, though, why they decided to get into voting machines in the first place. Power? I found in a Santa Clara County (CA) document that ES&S has an LLC listed as an owner, "Normal Investments" -- this may be the entity which holds the old BRC interests, perhaps. Actually, this whole line of thinking draws connections that are probably exaggerated. So, let's just offer the potential connections to ES&S a small footnote. What is clear is that there are a number of corporate entities who have staked a position in favor of e-voting.   James Zukowski Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant Username: Jimz Post Number: 145 Registered: 12-2004 Best of Black Box?  Votes: 1 (A keeper?) Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 1:16 pm:        I was struck by the number of attorneys in the membership. And one of the Vice-Chairs as well: Mr. Anthony B. Creamer III, CPA Arthur Andersen LLP I wonder how the former Big-8 accounting firm is doing these days... Peace! James Zukowski The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.   M Humes Voting Rights Forum Participant Username: Malix Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 8:38 am:        My dad is on the board of the Committe of 70 and has been for years, and was I believe a chairman for some years. While I share concerns about evoting as likely to be open to tampering and security issues I don't think the Committee of Seventy has an agenda beyond fair politics. Conventional balloting is also ripe with potential for abuse and has a long history of abuse especially in Philly. Personally I think that some form of evoting will eventually be a better solution than conventional balloting, but I've had a lot of concerns about the lack of paper audits in current or recent machines, and some of the issues like what we've seen in California with company employees of the manufacturers working as election monitoring officials. Also having spent 15 years working with networks I'm very concerned about security and tampering of networked devices. My impression is that the current state of evoting is a mess, but I'm not convinced that it's worse than the historical election balloting abuse. As I understand it the Committee is non partisan and acts as election watchdogs. They validate signatures on petitions, for one. There's fairly extensive history of the org on their site, see http://www.seventy.org/about/HistoryOfSeventy.html - it appears they've been in support of electronic voting since the 90's, probably predating the mass evolution of the Internet and more recent evoting initiatives. While the Committee's take on evoting may come across as "detrimental to the cause of honest and transparent elections in my region" I think it's fair to say they've done more for fair honest elections and politics in your region than you give them credit for if you review the history of the organization. Don't just take their word for it, do some research in news archives and other sources. Philadelphia is a city with a long history of political abuse. I grew up during Rizzo's era there. I think I read a recent story about the judge candidates in current times ponying up "donations" to elected officials for endorsements or being locked out of elections. One chapter I found very interesting in Thatcher Longstreth's auto-biography told of when he was on a watchdog committee in the fifties, probably the Committee of Seventy, and they went to monitor a poll. I think that the polling place was moved last minute and all day they waited and no one showed. The local election site staff talked the young men into going out to lunch or something, and they came back and found that the entire electrion roll had apparently showed up and voted while they were lured away. If you think the Committee of 70 is misguided then work to inform them. Sure there's a lot of lawyers on there. But this is likely because they're well versed in election law. These are the folks who fought Rizzo in the courts from changing the city charter to allow him to run for a 3rd term. They're the folks who monitor petitions for fraud and try to prevent election abuse, and they've seen a lot of that abuse historically long before evoting was even dreamed of.   E Ames Voting Rights Forum Participant Username: Citizenoftherepublic Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2005 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Tuesday, November 8, 2005 - 5:53 pm:        Hi, I'm the person who started this thread. I am a software developer, and as such all too aware of how easy it is to change information on a computer. My initial contact with the Committee of Seventy was an inquiry as to their position on evoting. I informed them of my background and concerns. I got an extremely rude and combative response accusing me of being misinformed. I was told that the people working the elections "program" the voting machines. As a fellow IT professional, you are no doubt well aware that end-users of a system do nothing of the sort. The Seventy website has a number of articles that uncritically advocate evoting. To this day I have been unable to find a mention of the GAO report. I would welcome any advice on how to get them to reexamine their support evoting. E Ames   Catherine Ansbro Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant Username: Catherine_a Post Number: 1167 Registered: 12-2004 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Wednesday, November 9, 2005 - 1:18 am:        Share the links to the submissions made to the NIST conference (Security Threats to Election Systems). (Or print out hard copies.) Give them the link to the GAO report, if they don't have this yet. (Or print it out and pass it around.) Are they folks who consider any info on the internet to be inherently unreliable? Or are they all averse to reading publications online? You need to find this out. Get them each a copy of the Black Box Voting book. If they are not willing to look at these and to consider the implications, then you need to seriously reassess what their real agenda now is, regardless of any good work they have done in the past, and regardless of any family involvement. Remember that controlling elections is a bi-partisan activity, and that the same overarching priorities control the leadership of both major parties, regardless of different philosophies at the grassroots level. It is normal to find "good" things mixed in with what is actually a disinformation campaign. This is the rule rather than the exception. Electronic voting is one of the single biggest threats to democracy. If these committee members are not willing to consider the facts, then you have to wonder why. (Message edited by catherine_a on November 09, 2005)

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