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| Discussion: Money Trail I -- Dems and... |
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| Author |
Message |
    
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 454
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, May 9, 2005 - 8:16 pm: | 
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http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/5595.html
Links to substantiating information posted in the article. Note that we were unable to obtain the Ohio lobbying list for 2004 -- if anyone can find it, please post a link.
-- Bev and Kathleen |
rightfoot
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: rightfoot
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 5:50 am: |
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do you have links for the information about Gallina & Hells Angels connection? |
harmonyguy
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: harmonyguy
Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 3:29 pm: |
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Is the spelling of "Shissione" correct?
Google doesn't seem to have anything under that name.
HG |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 457
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 3:49 pm: |
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HG -- I edited to change the spelling to "Shission," which is the name most often used in the newspaper articles.
There is some variation in the names used for the Ohio Players -- Gallina is most often called "Pat Gallina" and sometimes even Patrick Gallina, but he signs documents and shows up in court records as Pasquale Gallina. The newspapers most often use "Shission" as the spelling.
Still, most of the work we've been doing doesn't show up on Google, or even on Internet searches. There is no substitute for field work.
However, you'll be able to verify enough to gag a horse by running the name Shission on Lexis-Nexis.
Love ya,
Bev |
trent
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: trent
Post Number: 74
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 1:27 am: |
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I've said this many times before. But why haven't the dems screamed bloody murder?
I do think that they might be complicit and actions do speak louder than words.
If we ever get past this issue and our votes are actually counted properly. The next task should be to work to develope something more than a stale old two party system. IRV or instant runoff voting should be the next step. |
linda_franz
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: linda_franz
Post Number: 112
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, May 13, 2005 - 7:32 am: |
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Three C's:
Complacent
Compliant
Complicit
Either of those is a huge problem. None of them are partisan. It's the individual and those individuals are in both parties.
I should probably add: Confused
Although at this point you'd think the general idea that verified, hard evidence of voter intent as crucial to checks and balances for elections would be a no brainer. |
trent
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: trent
Post Number: 76
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 12:22 am: |
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It is a no brainer, and any politician that spends political clout to fight against it is dubious at best and suspect in my book.
There has been fraud, and I believe that there has been two stolen elections. And that we no longer have a democracy. If you know the facts, you have to come to a similiar conclusion. So, it will be interesting to see what comes next.
Stuff this big can't be hidden forever, we will eventually see where things are going.
What it looks like to me, is we become a bankrupt beligerent society that has more military might than money. That we fight for a few years against the rest of the world until they have enough and put us in our place. And we are no longer the super power.
I hope that those that come handle power better.
Trent |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 528
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 3:17 pm: |
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Note from admin: I have picked up the following post from DemocraticUnderground.com, whose members are busily trying to bash the story and trash the source. I think the following comments represent exactly the kind of thinking we MUST move toward:
From "PeacePatriot"
Well, I'm afraid we have to face the fact that there is serious corruption
...in the conversion to electronic voting--national, local, involving both Republicans and Democrats. I've seen it in California. It's quite blatant. (Democrat Connie McCormack, head of L.A. elections, close friends with Diebold's chief salesperson, advocating paperless electronic voting, and leading the charge on the vile campaign against Sec of State Kevin Shelley; many instances of "revolving door" employment, public service vs. private voting machine companies--from former Sec of State Bill Jones down to county election officials.) At the national level, SOME KIND OF corruption must be at work. The Democratic leadership's silence on this matter BEFORE the election--their acquiescence to a blatantly fraudulent election SYSTEM, and their lack of curiosity and spine on this matter since the election--are a vast mystery to me, and a political puzzle of considerable importance. They promised time and again that every vote would be counted. Was this a screaming joke on us, or what? (--just a nice fundraising scam?).
Lifelong loyal Democratic voter and political activist here, lo these forty-four and a half years since my first campaign (1960). I'm not into bashing Democrats. I know who the bad guys are. I'm just saying. We have got to begin figuring out these blank stares we're getting from Democratic leaders, who don't seem to think it's odd--or anything out of the way--that Wally O'Dell & buds counted our votes in secret in the last election.
We go to them with our pure citizen hearts, feeling dreadfully disenfranchised and having identified the egregious non-transparency of our election system, and they act like getting just the right amount of foam on their latte is more important to them.
Sorry, but I've had it with these evasions and blank stares. I don't think the concerns of the "tired, poor, huddled masses"--the ones right here at home; us--matter much to some Democrats any more. Of those who do care, some seem insanely oblivious to the loss of our right to vote for them.
And information is information. I get my information from a lot of different sources--and have varying degrees of respect and skepticism in evaluating them, based on what I know of the source, and past reliability. I don't think there is any reason to suppress a post like this. I thought it was interesting that the guy was willing to talk about his relationship with Diebold. Point in his favor for that. And it's informative to have a dollar figure for the kind of lobbying money that is being thrown around.
That there are Democrats invested in this horrid election stealing system is no surprise to me, and it's something we need to know about. I think a lot of people have been compromised in various ways. But it is the criminals and mass murderers and master thieves and world dominationists behind it all--Bush's cronies and handlers--who need to be removed from power--those who are so severely corrupting our government that it is hardly recognizable as a democracy at the moment.
Trust, and verify. Or, don't trust--and put extra effort into verifying. Or ignore. As you think best. |
linda_franz
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: linda_franz
Post Number: 113
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 4:33 pm: |
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I think there is a natural tendancy to want to make this issue black and white.
To make one side the bad guy and another the good guy.
But I've seen first hand that there are patriots in both parties and some, well, maybe they just need to get a clue.
The election process didn't get to this state overnight and it didn't get there with mechanizations by just one party. It had to have help or at least people content with ignoring it or looking the other way.
You can't look at the legislation just passed in Washington State and make genralizations about who supports secret vote counting.
We had Republicans doing some important work. Heck, one of them voted FOR the paper record in spite of his county's auditor having just purchased a bunch of DRE's- without a voter verified paper trail. I imagine he was under pressure to oppose this but voted instead for the greater good.
And we had a couple Dem's who still didn't seem to get it regarding legislation enabling electronic verification or making an amendment pushing the deadline past where the legislation would do any good. But can you take that as a negative on the Dem's? NO. We had GREAT cooporation from the rest of them when we asked for Help with those issues. The bill never made it beyond the initial reading in the committee and the amendment was withdrawn, I'm sure because other Dem's got the message and got it done.
It's the individual. What the parties need to do is wake up, admit what's wrong, and clean house.
If someone stands up for your right to have your vote counted as cast and the ability to prove that it was, party affiliation doesn't matter.
It's like the First Amendment- May not agree with what you say but will defend your right to say it.
Those who defend your right to an accurate vote are upholding your rights- even if you don't agree with them on other issues. |
trent
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: trent
Post Number: 93
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 1:19 am: |
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Well Linda,
I now know that this is not a one party thing.
I know this because I had a very interesting argument with a democrat who is also a political operative.
Of course, his first defense was to lable me as a conspiracy nut.
When that logic didn't hold up, he really didn't have anything logical to say and then I had to get back to work.
Trent |
lora
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: lora
Post Number: 30
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 6:39 am: |
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how about three C's and an S:
Complacent, Compliant, Complicit and Scared...
Anyone who is a serious threat to the power machine in this country runs the risk of being smeared. If they can marginalize you, ignore you, label you a "conspiracy nut" so no one listens to you, fine and dandy. But if people start to take you seriously, look out. They will go after you. |
trent
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: trent
Post Number: 104
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 1:13 am: |
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A little piece of advice,
Actions really do speak louder than words.
Watch what they do be critical of what they say.
We have a new Mayor here in in Houston that is criminalizing the Homeless.
He's a democrat. |
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