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| (US) 8/06 - Help on massive voter fra... |
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Pat Foster
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Mpfoster
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 7:47 pm: | 
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I am representing a poor township in Allegan county, Michigan were the people have been suppressed by Republicans in a police state were they use the police right at the polls to intimidate them from voting. We have evidence from our Election Challengers that they were giving 4 and 5 ballots to their friends to vote and most them were not even residents of our state, let alone the township.
After the election is over, I now need the formal process of presenting to the Election Bureau in Lansing what happened. They could not tell me where to find the law, and I will be working with the Michigan Democratic Party to find an attorney that might help us.
Thank you for spending the time to look at our situation when there are so many problems. Any help you can send our way will certainly be appreciated. We feel lkie our back is against the wall. One bright spot. With all the fraud, we still defeated two members of the board, and if we can get our challenges to the right people, the whole board will go back to hell where they came from. |
Jo Anne Karasek
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jo_anne_karasek
Post Number: 157
Registered: 08-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 7:56 pm: |
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Michigan election law is here (although it might not be up to date) http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(ultly54513tongy2urldgu55)/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-act-116-of-1 954
You can also search google.com for it at Michigan, election, law
But the election law is not all of the law. There are administrative laws and state procedures ("directives"in Ohio) and there may be regional procedures, etc. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 3165
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 1:04 am: |
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What are the laws about videotaping in Michigan? (Does it require 2-party consent?)
This is the kind of thing it would be important to record. |
Kathleen Wynne
Moderator
Username: Admin_ii
Post Number: 477
Registered: 08-2005
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 4:47 am: |
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Pat,
quote:With all the fraud, we still defeated two members of the board, and if we can get our challenges to the right people, the whole board will go back to hell where they came from.
First, welcome to Black Box Voting!
Unfortunately, many citizens in the country feel about their Board of Elections as you do (I have to admit the sentiments you expressed made me laugh out loud!). I assure you, we feel your pain. This kind of arrogant flaunting of the law is being documented throughout the country and citizens have to develop effective strategies and actions in order to stop it. (One way to help you accomplish this is to please check out the BBV Tool Kit found on the home page. I urge you to download all 20 modules, which are in pdf format. It will help you tremendously).
You mentioned that your Election Challengers had evidence that people were given 4 or 5 ballots and they were not even residents of your state. Rather than posting here on the forums, could you e-mail me the kind of evidence they have at(kathleen@blackboxvoting.org)? (It wouldn't be good legal strategy to publicly announce any evidence you have at this time, until you can access its value and the best way to use it.)
Also, Catherine is absolutely correct. Documenting evidence of laws, procedures, directives being broken is a must. Michigan is a single party consent state, so if you are told you cannot videotape, you can secretly audiotape (although Michigan law should allow videotaping at any public meeting). Now is the time to start bringing a video camera to any election-related events, because you never know what you're going to get. Of course, defintely bring it with you to any public hearings and/or meetings pertaining to what the Election Challengers witnessed regarding people from out of state voting. You want to capture on film election officials explaining what occurred and how they dealt with it. (Jo Anne Karasak gave you a link to Michigan laws and advised that they may have violated administrative laws and procedures, as well as directives during the election. Do you have a lawyer available to advise you how to proceed with the evidence you have?)
Keep in mind, even if these election officials are not held accountable for any laws they may have violated, keeping a record of them being caught in the act is never a waste of time or effort. In November, definitely videotape the police intimidating voters! You never know, it could come in handy later from a legal standpoint. It could also be used to raise public awareness that such corruption does exist in your county. If nothing else, it's an effective way of motivating citizens into action.
Black Box Voting will help in any way we can. Hang in there.
Kathleen Wynne
* * * * *
"We're counting ALL the votes. Get over it."
(-- Nancy Tobi, Democracy for New Hampshire)
Be part of the solution: Please sign up for the NATIONAL HAND COUNT REGISTRY: Go to Home Page - Hand Count Registry is right above lead story
Make November elections the biggest evidence gathering action ever. EVIDENCE = videotape, audiotape and photos. Come prepared. This time, focus on the COUNTING not just the voting.
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Linda Franz
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Linda_franz
Post Number: 525
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 9:16 am: |
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Some advice about video and audio tapes-
Make copies if you can.
I don't think I would want the original and perhaps only copy, subject to being "lost" or "accidentally" erased. |
Kathleen Wynne
Moderator
Username: Admin_ii
Post Number: 478
Registered: 08-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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Linda,
Excellent point. This should be done with every tape, if possible. However, if this poses too much of an expense, then at least have copies of those tapes that you believe to be "evidence".
Never give your only original tape to anyone. Always a copy.
Kathleen
* * * * *
"We're counting ALL the votes. Get over it."
(-- Nancy Tobi, Democracy for New Hampshire)
Be part of the solution: Please sign up for the NATIONAL HAND COUNT REGISTRY: Go to Home Page - Hand Count Registry is right above lead story
Make November elections the biggest evidence gathering action ever. EVIDENCE = videotape, audiotape and photos. Come prepared. This time, focus on the COUNTING not just the voting.
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Tom Sweet
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Tsweet
Post Number: 21
Registered: 06-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 6:14 pm: |
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Was this a primary election? Can you explain how one party can steal an election from another party in a primary? |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 3175
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 3:18 am: |
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Tom, while I can't respond to Pat's specific allegations since I wasn't there and I have no idea what party or parties were involved in the election or the alleged suppression, I would nonetheless like to respond to your question, "Can you explain how one party can steal an election from another party in a primary?"
Any political party or vested interest would have a motive to affect who is selected as candidate by a competing party or by their own party.
* They might want to ensure that a weaker candidate is chosen, so that it will increase their own chances of winning
* Powers-that-be may want to ensure that candidates of both parties are chosen who can be counted on to act in line with certain vested interests
As to the "how", the possibilities are many. If any one party has a friendly person working in the election office (or a friend-of-a-friend) they could:
* tamper with relevant voter registrations
* provide illicit access to one or more voting machines
* influence how voting machines are distributed so that one candidate will have more favorable voting conditions than another
* make "slip-ups" on ballot definition files, scanner calibrations (e.g., so a certain candidate's name might be missing from some ballots, or that votes for or against a certain candidate are less likely to be accurately read by a scanner)
* be lax regarding security of memory cards, machines, etc.
* be "careless" in how absentee ballots are distributed or collected
* put a surreptitious pencil mark on ballots for an undesirable candidate so that these votes will be invalid
Even with no access to election offices, a party member could also use standard dirty tricks, such as:
* interfering with an undesired candidate's get out the vote activities through jamming phone lines, slashing tires of vehicles for transporting voters, telling voters who in an undesirable candidate's stronghold to vote someplace else or to vote on a different day),
* deliberately registering people for the wrong party so they won't be able to influence their own primary
* spreading false information about undesirable candidates to force them to waste time and energy rebutting allegations and/or to diminish their popularity
* bribe or blackmail someone working in the election office to carry out any of the activities in the first list (e.g., threaten them with exposing certain true or untrue personal information that could cause them to lose their jobs or might destroy their marriage)
One might argue that vested interests might find it more important to influence a primary election than the election itself, in many cases. I have heard allegations of election tampering in both Democratic and Republican presidential primary elections. Any such tampering could have been carried out by members of either political party, possibly at the behest of vested interests who want to limit choices to those who are more likely to do their bidding. Very strong motives exist at local election level, as well, due to the amount of money to be gained from zoning/planning decisions and other regulatory matters. |
Michelle Smith
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Galfromcal
Post Number: 113
Registered: 11-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 11:15 am: |
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In response to one of Catherines examples gave to try to explain to Tom how one party can steal an election in a primary.
I believe I have told the members of this forum before of a situation here in Orange County, Ca where Democratic voters were robbed of their choice during Nov.2005 Special Election and June 2006 primaries.
I had read about voters complaining to their Registrar's office that the party registration had been change without them knowing. In November 2005 this was made apparent to them when they started getting mailings from the party they opposed. When they inquired they found that the reason for receiving such mailings was because of the party claimed in their registration. When they looked further into how it was change many found that when signing petition, like at the malls, Target, etc.. The person a person representing that group collecting the signatures had also turned in a voter registration card for person who had signed these petitions.
Here is one article about a situation;
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/abox/article_1083406.php
here is a more recent article;
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1217855.php
Now, this is just what happen in Orange County, Ca, but I personally know of someone who signed a petition while away at school who had her Orange County registration change unknowingly. My stepdaughter goes to school in the Bay Area had this happen to her. We realized something was wrong when she received her absentee ballot. It did not have any of the candidates from her party. Yes, she was registrated as a Democrat and was now receiving a Republican ballot.
Needless to say she went to the county registrar's office and complained and change it back. The RO gave her a copy of the change request. They spelled her name differently ie, (Cathy, to Kathy) and then changed the day of birth and the last 4 numbers of her SSN by one number. This was not in Orange County, so how many other people who do not vote absentee might also be victims.
Even I have doubted some of the claims people have made about election tampering, but after it hit home and we were made aware of it. I now have now doubt that the citizens should be able to question all elections and electorial processes.
Sincerely,
Michelle |
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