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Virginia Dato
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Vdato
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 4:23 pm: | 
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I use a public domain Centers for Disease Control and Prevention computer program -- Epi Info http://www.cdc.gov/epiinfo/ to "count" people's choices, which is exactly what voting computers need to do. And I use the self service scanner at the supermarket to select my "choices" to buy and bring home food. I then get a tape of my choices which I rip off and take home. Why can't these two off the shelf processes be combined to make a voter verified, recountable open source voting system? I hope I have interested someone to just do this and make it completely free. If we need a number on each slip of paper, use a randomly generated one (sure there might be an occasional duplicate but we can deal with that.) Want to learn more about how this wonderful program developed http://www.cdc.gov/epiinfo/background.htm. The bottom line is that this free, we the people already own it, it is already open and I think it it just needs to be modified slightly. I'd do this myself but my only formal computer programing was in college over 25 years ago and as a working mom,it would take me too many years to get up to speed. But maybe if we all do a little bit it will work |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3717
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 4:41 pm: |
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Moved to general discussion. The one-on-one area is for specific advice for citizens who are going into battle, whereas this is a proposed solution -- thus, general discussion is a better location.
We generally don't critique proposed solutions, amendments, or legislation in the one-on-one section right now, because we don't have enough personnel and resources to do that properly. |
Sam Greenlaw
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: K3rrycalls
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 7:58 am: |
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You know there's a fully mature, well establish Open Source network set up around LINUX and UNIX. The Debian system is in use.
Debian GNU/Linux will be used in an
electronic voting system for the ACT's October election in Australia.
They write: "The only platform that provided robustness and voter
confidence was GNU Debian Linux, with all source code released under
the General Public License (GPL)."
Links:
1. http://it.mycareer.com.au/news/2001/07/24/FFXL76U4HPC.html
2. http://www.softimp.com.au/
Works fine. Passes tests. |
Robert Sawdey
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Rsawdey
Post Number: 52
Registered: 01-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 1:33 pm: |
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...and whoever defines & runs the tests can fix your elections.
When the ACM (computer professionals group) polled their members about the security of computerized election systems (DREs), 95% said they can't be secured and shouldn't be used.
When you can't SEE your ballot, it's interpretation is decided by insider 'experts'. |
Jim Eldon
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Vegsledman
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 1:47 pm: |
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Robert,
Could you provide us with a reference for that survey? I searched the ACM site but couldn't find it.
Thanks,
Jim |
Robert Sawdey
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Rsawdey
Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 9:29 pm: |
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I was reminded of it with a quote on UScountVote... it was several years ago... MOST programmers have been warning about this stuff for decades... but obviously, some have delusions of capability & a few sold out. Try a really broad search like 'vote', and go back as far as you can... did you also try JACM (the Journal of the ACM).
(Message edited by rsawdey on February 20, 2006) |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 1781
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 12:10 am: |
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It definitely exists--it was widely quoted in Ireland, too, and it was up on their website for a long time. It is still often referenced.
Maybe "Wayback" or another siilar web archiving tool would find it, if you go back to a date 1-2 years ago. |
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 398
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 6:10 am: |
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That statement is tremendously broad.
If you build a system where the elections people hold all copies of the votes, that's prone to jiggering, as well. |
Robert Sawdey
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Rsawdey
Post Number: 62
Registered: 01-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 2:56 pm: |
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That's why we need to insist everything be subject to public view... with public counts at the precinct level, and immediate posting of results there, so ballots can't be manipulated during transport or in some centralized location out of the public eye.
The more I think about Anwar's idea of presentation of serial numbered ballot faces for public videotaping the more I like it... it would give you a way to trace your own ballot, too, which I know is one of your primary concerns Brant. |
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 402
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 4:30 pm: |
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It doesn't give the average voter a way to check his own ballot in any meaningful time frame, and it doesn't give him any standing or right to get it corrected either.
And it doesn't leave him with any proof that he can use to show his vote was misrecorded to ask for a recount, nor has he any proof to get it fixed.
And I'll tell you, if some disaster gets elected (as many did in '04) turns out to be one or two (or even six or ten votes) per precinct, and I know my vote was incorrectly counted, and I haven't any standing to get anything done about it, I'm going to be mad as hell that there isn't a way to get your vote corrected.
My primary concerns are these:
You should be able to check your ballot was counted as it was cast and correct it if not.
Voter ID verification and election procedures should be good enough that fake voters or ballots don't get to sway an election.
Nobody that is a legitimate voter should be turned away for any reason. |
Robert Sawdey
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Rsawdey
Post Number: 65
Registered: 01-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 9:06 pm: |
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...nor should anyone be illegitimized for political reasons. |
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 417
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 7:37 am: |
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That's obvious. |
