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| 100 pages of new Diebold documents |
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| Author |
Message |
    
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 849
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 4 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 8:17 pm: | 
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Financial statements, price bid worksheets ($325,000 for GEMS???), planning worksheets, personnel issues...a small selection of documents obtained by Black Box Voting investigators to date.
Note: If you experience problems loading these documents, first try clicking them again, because we adjusted the links. If that doesn't work, go here: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html and do a free update on your Adobe Acrobat reader.
Internal notes and memos:
"confidential executive memo" -- (2 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/confidential-exec-memo1.pdf
Secretary of State meeting didn't go well (1 pg)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/diebold-SOS-meetingnotes.pdf
Planning documents
"Critical Issues" in customer service (9 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/critical-issues.pdf
Personnel issues (1 page)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/HRissues.pdf
Help Desk plans (21 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/help-desk.pdf
Union busting plans (3 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/union-busting1.pdf
Problems with equipment and customers
Coconino County Arizona - withholding payment (1 page)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/coconino.pdf
Minor Georgia problems (1 page)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/minor-georgia-problems.pdf
Tippecanoe County (IN) problems (1 page)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/tippecanoe.pdf
Sold used equipment as "new" in Mendocino County, California (1 page)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/mendocino-sold-used.pdf
price bid worksheets
Boston pricing notes (1 page)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/boston-estimates.pdf
Michigan worksheets (3 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/michigan-worksheet.pdf
Sacramento estimates (3 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/sacramento-estimates.pdf
Financial statements
Accounts Payable 1 (2 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/accts-payable1.pdf
Customer Transactions (7 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/customer-transactions1.pdf
Expense reports (3 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/diebold-expense-reports.pdf
General Ledger 1 (37 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/generalledger1.pdf
Overdue receivables (2 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/receivable1.pdf
Recent addition:
Louisiana memo about lobbyist (1 page)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/darrell-hunt.pdf
Louisiana public record about lobbyists (2 pages)
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/Louisiana-rfp-lobbyists.pdf
Black Box Voting obtained the above documents legally, in open, unprotected, dumpsters. As you can see, no attempt was made to shred the documents, or protect them in any way. Diebold, a company that boasts of its security, was in the habit of discarding its internal records in various publicly available locations.
The documents show a shocking lack of ethics, and multiple problems with management and quality control. A careful review of the financial documents will show that some items were not truthfully reported to government authorities. |
salvorhardin
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: salvorhardin
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 2:54 pm: |
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You know, reading the confidential executive memo where Diebold Election Systems employees are lambasted about DESI's financial situation, I started wondering about something we don't talk about very often.
What if DESI went out of business? How many Diebold voting systems are in place? Who will service them? Who repair them if they break? It is conceivable that if DESI is in such dire financial straits, then DESI could be shut down by the parent organization leaving many counties who have purchased these systems out of luck and out of pocket. |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 855
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 3:44 pm: |
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If Diebold Inc. were to sell off (or place into temporary other hands during a clean-up) -- it would only slightly affect the income of the parent company. I think the elections division is -- what -- 5 percent of the revenue?
What has to happen is a product recall and a cleanup operation, and while that would be expensive, it probably will not be terminally costly. Other companies have survived it.
Certainly, Diebold Inc. might want to unload DESI, but the fallout for that can be managed (and similar fallouts have often been managed by other companies). Certainly the elections officials would need compensation or replacement of their shoddy equipment. A clean-up or a sell-off to "new management" are probably do-able.
However, continued cover-ups will be fatal.
What worries me (a little) is if we are not looking at a business deal, but a political power play of a particularly nasty variety. If the efforts to cover up have to do with unelected officials who want to hang on to power at any cost, the business model I just described above does not work.
When you have a car with an exploding gas tank, you do a product recall. But if you have people hanging around who took massive payoffs to persuade people to get that car, and those people will go to jail if it all unravels, it provides a much bigger incentive for resistance to correcting the problem.
And if the incentive is raw power through manipulated elections, you've got a very nasty infection indeed. Still, we Americans are strong, and we should clean the wound, amputate it, whatever we have to do.
After all, we can still buy pencils and send ballots to Kinkos, and we can still count. |
catherine_a
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: catherine_a
Post Number: 433
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 4:04 pm: |
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But what if the parent company, Diebold Inc., is being controlled by other interests? After all, with DESI's poor results Diebold could have just dumped it long ago. What/who might be exerting pressure to keep DESI alive? There could be another layer of more concealed connections influencing the actions of the parent company.
After all, plenty of bad info about DESI has been out in the public arena for so long (e.g., all the felons employed by DESI), yet the parent company has apparently been happy to tolerate the situation.
What makes anyone think the problems are limited to DESI? (There could be some very ethical folks at Diebold Inc., and there could also be others "under the influence" who are able to exert pressure on those who want to run a clean ship not to dump DESI but to just try to "get them to clean up their act." Ethical people can sometimes be used by unethical people, often without even knowning it.)
But what if Diebold Election Systems is what's known as a "rogue company?" -- that happens. I think it's possible. I wondered about it because I was pretty sure, after I found the 40,000 Diebold files, that Urosevich & crew lied to the parent company, implying it was nothing big. Wow. They must have been stunned when the full 40,000 files were released in New Zealand on July 8, 2003, containing everything from the source code to private information on 300,000 Texans to a porn movie -- and 16 days later the New York Times ran a headline: "Stunning, stunning security flaws found in Diebold voting machines."
My theory on the documents Kathleen found: Someone, somewhere in Diebold, came forward with concerns and an internal audit was going on. The documents we found aren't just any ol' documents. Someone was cleaning house in a hurry.
-- Bev |
catherine_a
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: catherine_a
Post Number: 436
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 11:53 pm: |
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Well, I can well believe that DESI may be a "rogue company." But does tht excuse Diebold Inc. for putting up with DESI shananigans for such a long time? How long has the BBV book been out, which details the criminal background of key DESI people? Have any of them been fired?
From Bev -- Nope, in this case the sins of the child shall be visited on the parent company. Here is a theory also:
- Perhaps Diebold Inc. buys rogue company
- When Diebold Inc. begins to learn what they bought, at first they minimize problems (helped, perhaps, by lying obfuscating people in the subsidiary, some of whom perhaps have a sweet delayed stock deal negotiated as part of the acquisition). Like a pig at the trough, Diebold wants that HAVA money and there are big statewide buys looming.
- When Diebold learns that the problems are very systemic, they try to embark on damage control and restructuring of DESI secretly.
- Perhaps the problems -- as they are in the 1.94w optical scan -- are built into the very foundation. The whole architecture of DESI turns out to contain back doors and flaws. The infection has taken hold and merits amputation (i.e., selling off the division, or otherwise finding a way to immunize the parent company during the decontamination process)
- Unfortunately, the health of the parent company is at risk if they choose to amputate the infection, for two reasons: (1) They risk a stockholder's lawsuit because indeed, Catherine A, they should have known and acted foolishly and (2) They have published a restatement due to -- it looks like -- a form of sales fraud, improperly reported information relating to commissions, sales, on their ATM division. Therefore, to offset the hit they are taking on that, they must lean more heavily on revenues from the elections division.
Just a theory. Of course, I am still perplexed about the due diligence done on the software at the time of acquisition.
If Diebold Inc. has not taken drastic action to sort out its DESI subsidiary, doesn't that say something about Diebold Inc? I wonder what Diebold shareholders would think about their Board perpetuating a relationship with an election-equipment subsidiary staffed by convicted felons? I don't see how DESI could have been kept as part of Diebold Inc. "family" without some level of approval (and strong support) from one or more members Diebold's Board.
Now -- as for the criminals and con men -- there are some misconceptions about that.
1) Founder Michael K. Graye - left Global Election Systems for a lengthy stay in prison. I think he is still in prison.
2) Early key person Norton Cooper - not involved with Global after the early 1990s
3) Founder Charles Hong Lee - not involved with Global (I think) after mid-1990s
4) Director and key programmer for Global, Jeffrey Dean -- formal employment terminated by Diebold upon its acquisition of Global -- but they did keep him on as a paid consultant, a problem. Also, we have SEVERAL reports from insiders at Diebold indicating that Jeffrey Dean is still involved. We have not been able to confirm that.
5) John Elder -- unlike the other four, his infractions did not have to do with financial fraud (the others were involved with stock market manipulation, bilking investors, and embezzlement). His conviction was for cocaine dealing. He was retained by Diebold until summer 2004. We have interviewed many people in all of the Diebold locations, and Elder was generally well liked. He was replaced by David Ashworth, a long-time ballot printing guy from Alabama, if my memory serves me correctly.
Do you really think that no one at Diebold Inc. was aware of the material exposed in the BBV book? Did you send Diebold Inc. a copy of the book?
Yes, they have the book. They clearly misjudged the situation (if they had any honest intentions to begin with). Note that in most of the major scandals which involve politics, it is the cover up that kills them, not the original infraction.
I don't doubt that there are many good folks employed by both DESI and Diebold Inc.--but I find it hard to believe that the parent company is "pure as the driven snow" given the range of damning info that's been out in the public domain for--how long?--a couple of years or so.
The parent company is definitely NOT as pure as the driven snow. There are other indications that make me wonder about the parent company. For example, we get many tips from people who work/have worked in the ATM division. Apparently, Diebold self-insures on employee health insurance. Many sources have come forward indicating that when they, or a family member, got a diagnosis that would indicate expensive treatment, Diebold Inc. concocted reasons to terminate their employment.
Also, again, what the hell happened with "due diligence"? -- Diebold Inc. could have found out about the felons simply by looking in Lexis-Nexis. How in the world could their acquisition team have missed the staggering design flaws in the product line they were buying?
From your comment, you suggest that maybe some people at DESI were trying to "clean house" to keep certain info hidden from their parent company? This seems reasonable to me, but it still doesn't explain why nothing would have been done by Diebold execs in relation to the kind of staff members hired by DESI.
Also, it is my understanding that Diebold Inc. has sometimes selected less than brilliant managers (i.e. people already having problems in ATM division) to oversee certain key DESI functions.
Perhaps Diebold Inc. took swift corrective action a year ago and miraculously no one has been aware of it. Seems unlikely, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.
About a year ago, president Bob Urosevich was terminated, but that was kept secret. Also about a year ago, John Elder was terminated. As I understand it, they put Tom Swidarski into the role Bob had, and David Ashworth into the role John Elder had.
I suspect some house-cleaning at the parent company may be in order. At the very least if I were a stockholder I'd want to find out who at Diebold was complicit in tolerating DESI's management decisions, staffing decisions, and questionable business practices.
I think the housecleaning, if it occurs, should focus very heavily on Wally O'Dell -- from what I have learned, Bob Urosevich was allowed to bypass normal chain of command and interfaced only with Wally. The guy who usually did troubleshooting and subsidiary oversight, Wes Vance, died in a small plane crash about six weeks after I found the 40,000 Diebold files and the rob-georgia patch.
Why didn't Diebold Inc. just sell off this loss-making subsidiary which was riddled with impropriety? I can understand if most of the Diebold Board didn't know about the problems till your book came out--but it seems to me they've had ample opportunities to investigate and take action since then.
If they'd been smart, they would have immediately announced implementation of a paper trail right after Avi Rubin's study came out (back then, novices that we all were, we mostly thought a paper trail was the solution.) If they were smart, they'd have ditched Urosevich the moment the Avi Rubin study hit the New York Times. If they were smart, they would have jettisoned the elections division before it infected the whole company. If they ARE smart, that indicates that another agenda was afoot.
Is there some high-level political/financial support for Diebold Inc. which is encouraging them to hang on to DESI?
Sounds like it.
Why is no one else asking these questions?
You are. And I look forward to the day when more people are. |
kathleen_wynne
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: kathleen_wynne
Post Number: 98
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 7:41 am: |
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catherine_a,
Well, they did relieve Bob Urosevich of his duties as President of DESI (albeit paid leave, I'm sure!) Can't take any chances of making him mad enough to talk about his experiences at DESI, now could they!
For what it's worth, I believe it's very possible that DESI has a purpose we haven't been able to ascertain yet. Please bear with me on this...right now I'm going to allow myself to think of the wildest theory, to "really" think outside the black box, if you will, and throw a crazy theory at you as to what purpose I think DESI has to Diebold, Inc.
This theory crossed my mind after we had interviewed Juan Andrade in Chicago. His lobbying for DESI didn't make sense then and it doesn't now.
Here is an upstanding citizen, received an award from the President for his extraordinary work as a citizen, and now he is lobbying for Diebold? He's willing to take large sums of money ($20,000 a month) from them and then not disclose it, thereby violating the lobbying laws of Illinois. Why would he be willing to jeopardize his sterling reputation?
What did he think he would gain by working to get Diebold into Cook County?
Dr. Andrade spoke very passionately in that interview when he told us he had worked all his life to see Hispanics gain political power, so that they could be part of the political process that affects the quality of their lives. I can certainly appreciate his desire to help his community gain political power. He also alluded to the fact that he didn't feel they had made enough progress in achieving that goal. He also told us he wanted to work for the "winning vendor" (I'm not sure if that's the exact quote, but it's close, when we asked why he particularly wanted Diebold in Cook County).
Some time after that interview, I tried to figure out what Dr. Andrade was saying "between the lines", and please remember that this is only a "theory"...
Now, consider what Harri Hursti discovered about the architecture of the Diebold software. The programmers appear to have "intended" to build it in such a way not only to allow "flexibility", but that it was also an unlockable revolving door, open for business -- suppose, just for discussion sake, this is DESI's purpose. Elections being open for business can be a very, very lucrative tool to have for those in power, don't you think?
Could it be possible that Dr. Andrade was quietly and discretly informed by executives at DESI that if he wanted to see more Hispanics elected into political office, Diebold voting machines could make that possible?
The first thing Harri Hursti told Bev and me when he saw that the memory cards had an executable program was that this system "was open for business"...so, I think we should at least consider the possibility that, as you put it, "some high-level political/financial support" might be encouraging Diebold to keep DESI. That would be a way to hang on to power.
Also, something else we might ought to keep in mind -- the closer we get to unravelling this mystery, the more fiercely we are going to be attacked by that power elite. You can count on that for sure. The question is, will we be ready and properly prepared to fight back effective when we stir up this beast by backing it into a corner?
Back to work!!
Kathleen |
catherine_a
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: catherine_a
Post Number: 439
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 9:24 am: |
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Guess we should all avoid flying in small planes.
(I hope folks realize that Bev is putting in lots of comments in earlier posts. They don't show up when one does a search for new posts.) |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 863
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 10:10 am: |
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catherine_a,
Even Bev thinks there is another agenda being played out here.
Would you consider giving your theory regarding the purpose of DESI? It looks like you didn't consider mine very feasible and were too kind to respond saying as much. I appreciate that.
Of course, I'm sure my analysis on this comes across as more "dramatic" because it stems from my tendancy to view things more from the human side in trying to understand unexplained behavior as discussed here being exhibited by the people who manage Diebold and Dr. Andrade, rather than from the technical and/or business side. It does seem like you analyze these things much in the same way as Bev, which I have great respect for.
However, maybe if the two methods were looked at from a parallel vantage point, we could make some sense of what's going on with Diebold. You know, "ying-yang". Sometimes the answers we seek aren't where we usually find them.
In any event, I would like to hear from you!
Kathleen |
catherine_a
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: catherine_a
Post Number: 441
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:27 am: |
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Kathleen,
(Let me start this post with a serious tin-foil hat warning. Get it out and ready, and I'll tell you when to put it on.)
I think you're both right. I don't see your two theories as being mutually exclusive. I trust your reading of Andrade and his sincerity, and I can understand how he would be tempted to play the system--just like a promising athlete in a sport where everyone uses steroids would be tempted to do the same. It would be the only way to create a level playing field, in a crooked kind of way. I could see that a well-meaning person could get caught up in this, and then of course there's no way out. (Though the ACG connection doesn't seem very wise if someone were ethical. Birds of a feather, etc. What are your thoughts about this?)
I also think there's probably some high-level protection/influence/pressure from powerful figures which is having an impact on Diebold in terms of its relationship with DESI. I'd suspect such influence might come from government and/or international finance circles who wield even more power than governments.
And if you follow the BIG money trail (put on your tin-foil hats now, please):
Simply control US national elections, and ensure a winner who is known to favor a policy that involves military aggression and feeding political instability (and control of energy reserves). Who benefits? Well, as is very clear from The Money Masters documentary, small groups of private individuals who control our money supply create/lend money to all sides in a conflict.
(For those who don't know, the Federal Reserve is NOT a body under government control, even though the Senate ratifies members--sort of. The Federal Reserve "Bank" creates money out of nowhere, and the *private* individuals behind this and similar institutions get to keep the interest. Talk about a scam. See the documentary if you are interested in knowing more. Please. www.themoneymasters.com)
The folks who benefit from creating money out of nowhere make out like bandits from wars. That's in addition to the obvious impact of money flowing into the defense industries etc. That's because wars create massive debts on all sides of a conflict.
Wars are very effective mechanisms for redistributing wealth. Ditto for depressions, which--guess what--were deliberately created. (Watch that video. Got to see it if you are really interested in understanding BIG money trails.) When Central Banks contract the money supply, you get depressions. During depressions, those with money can snap up land, factories, resources for a song, further concentrating ownership in the hands of a few. This is really easy to do if you're one of the "club" who knows about the depression in advance and can ensure your assets are liquid.
We've been seeing huge expansion of the money supply, increasing debt everywhere. What do you think will follow?
Those who create/loan money would have a lot to gain by being able to control US government policy, which they could do most effectively by controlling US elections and through this, international corporate policy. Control this, and you control banking laws, trade laws and media (so no one ever knows the things that really matter).
By controlling the "opposing" candidate selection too, you win either way. Note that Kerry had one of the most "conservative/corporate-friendly" voting records of the Senate; he was the Chair of one of the most important committees, the one involved with corporate affairs. And he could be counted on to go along with the Iraq war agenda. And then you observe that there were some suprising features in Kerry's primary election victory.
I think with Andrade you're seeing one end of a pincers--the more "personal/local level" effect, and with the national election you see the other end of the pincers--the more "international level" effect. I suspect the American people are pawns stuck in the middle, just a means to an end.
This is also why I am deeply suspicious of the push to electronic voting in other countries. I don't see this as part of just financial scams to line pockets by selling voting machines. I think it's likely to be part of a larger corruption, one that most people can no longer see. We don't realize that in the past, many US presidential elections were fought on the issue of opposition to the creation of a central bank. People used to have lots more awareness of these things than they do now. We've become so accustomed to a debt-based economy and to "business cycles" of ups and downs that we no longer question it. It's invisible.
Think of this as a BIG food chain. In a way, I think both you & Bev are looking at only parts of the food chain. And in fairness, all of us tend to focus on the part of the food chain most relevant to ourselves. So, Andrade may see his Hispanic peers and want to support them. I doubt very much he would think of the higher level food chain. Even folks like Blackwell, Noe, etc. may not be looking further than their personal financial gain.
I think it's useful to step back now and again to look at the really big picture, because only then can one recognize the pattern. The irony is, that if one becomes captive to the food chain philosophy, one is definitely going to end up as food to someone else! Everyone ends up serving a different master than what they expected, and none of them can easily get out once they've been enticed into the system.
Be aware of the money trail, but don't play the game.
(Message edited by catherine_a on July 21, 2005) |
catherine_a
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: catherine_a
Post Number: 442
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:55 am: |
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I should add that given the criminal background of DESI's fore-runner, Global, I think it most likely that international crime/monetary/some BIG players behind the scenes were well aware of what Global was doing right from the start. I wouldn't rule out that this was planned in the same way an architect would plan something. The series of subsequent takeovers could be easily stage-managed by folks with the right kind of power. This would also explain the lack of scrutiny into Diebold's code. The powers-that-be might have been well aware of exactly what they were buying, and why, and by easing certain aspects of the due diligence process they were doing the same kind of thing we've seen in the so-called "certification" process. Many or most on Diebold's Board were probably unaware. All it would take would be one or two key players to assure the others that the due diligence had been done. |
catherine_a
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: catherine_a
Post Number: 443
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 11:56 am: |
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OK, now do I get to be hired as BBV's Chief Conspiracy Theorist?  |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 871
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 12:06 pm: |
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Not so farfetched, when you consider that it is farfetched indeed to have an architecturally flawed, "open for business" voting system programmed by an embezzler counting up to 40 million votes in a U.S. presidential election.
In this case, the TRUTH is getting more "farfetched" every day. |
ubetchaiam
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ubetchaiam
Post Number: 38
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
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Thank you Catherine and BRAVO!(I'll leave my tinfoil hat on as it fits so well ;->)
I came across this on the EAC website about 'filing a complaint'(2) The hearing shall be conducted no sooner than 10 days and no later than 60 days after the Secretary of State receives the complaint.
So it is getting near that 60 days for the 'compliants'(and I'm not sure if 'requests for inspection' under EC 19202 qualify as a 'complaint') Bev,Jim March, me and who knows who else, filed regarding the Diebold opscan machines in California. But I now have a new idea and will pursue it. |
linda_franz
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: linda_franz
Post Number: 143
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 12:20 pm: |
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Catherine,
Thanks for your input on this. All ideas welcome and usefull.
Sometimes parts of the puzzle come from many places.
I don't think of the voting issue as partisan. I think of it in terms of power, money, and greed.
By the way, using several different diagnostics is very usefull. |
catherine_a
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: catherine_a
Post Number: 444
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 12:29 pm: |
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Linda,
As you said, it's really useful to apply several different "diagnostics." In health care, I think of this as using different maps of the same territory, and depending on the situation one kind of map will be more helpful than another, and several different maps will show overlapping/related kinds of information.
Other folks will no doubt have other dimensions to add. (E.g., there's always the Theocracy side to the story, as well. I forget the name of that hot-selling Bible-based book series that is popular in certain circles, but it's based on an apocalyptic view of the second coming, which must include a war in the Middle East.) |
ubetchaiam
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ubetchaiam
Post Number: 42
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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Catherine,alert! US INVESTIGATORS, including CIA agents, will be allowed interrogate Irish citizens on Irish soil in total secrecy, under an agreement signed between Ireland and the US last week.
Whole article here:
http://www.globalnewsmatrix.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1866 |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 874
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 1:25 pm: |
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catherine_a,
Let me reiterate what ubetchaiam said about your analysis...BRAVO and may I add, BINGO! You've explained it better than my history professors did. It was rather sobering because of the truth it speaks.
Indeed, there are powerful forces who have always remained in the background controlling the strings of power throughout history, and who've never come forward and revealed themselves (although we do have our suspicions). Of course, this kind of power is never revealed to the world.
Regardless of the outcome of our efforts, I've chosen my path and the team I wish to play on and I am pleased with my choice.
Many thanks for your wonderful analysis.
Kathleen |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 880
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 6:19 pm: |
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Note new addition, see main post, at bottom -- Louisiana lobbyist document. See Consumer Reports article July 21, 2005 for a connection between this lobbyist and a bribery situation:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/8458.html |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 957
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 1:58 pm: |
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