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| 2-8-07: Beware of the Bandwagon -- A ... |
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Message |
    
Bev Harris
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Site_admin
Post Number: 619
Registered: 10-2006
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 13 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, February 8, 2007 - 9:08 am: | 
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UPDATED SAT. FEB. 10 WITH HOLT RESPONSES: SEE POST #5
- Black Box Voting has publicly come out against the Bill
- Open Voting Consortium has publicly come out against the Bill
- Brad Friedman (BradBlog) has publicly come out against the Bill
- Jon Bonifaz (VoterAction.org / Demos) has publicly come out against the Bill
- Paul Lehto has publicly come out against the Bill
- Democracy for New Hampshire has publicly come out against the Bill
- John Gideon (VotersUnite) has publicly refused to support the bill
and there will be more.
PROBLEMS WITH THE BILL
1. Deceptive language. Calls a paper TRAIL a paper BALLOT.
2. Billion-dollar unfunded mandate: Requires text conversion technology in every polling place. At $7000 per machine for 185,000 polling places, you do the math. See this article for documentation on the billion-dollar boondoggle:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/46649.html
The bill is not talking about scanner wands, folks. Or if it is, they'd better specify that, and soon! Except that apparently, it's too late to make changes.
Note that only two vendors currently manufacture the needed technology, and one (Populex) has as head of its advisory board Frank Carlucci, the former chairman of the Carlyle Group, former CIA director, who was Donald Rumsfeld's roommate in college. Every polling place in America. Is this really what you want? Isn't it time to read the fine print on this???
3. Makes the scandal-ridden EAC a permanent fixture and increases its power. Alan Dechert, from the Open Voting Consortium says it best: "Holt contemplates the invasion of these United States by the Federal government. If passed, it would BREAK the voting system in the states while establishing a dictatorship to handle things: the Election Assistance Commission ("EAC" or just "the Commission") with its four commissioners appointed by the president of the United States."
4. Allows loss of secret ballots for the Military
5. No recognition of citizen right to oversight. Audit provisions do not allow either citizens or candidates access to any records for meaningful audits.
6. Conflicting requirements -- ie, must have text converters by 2008 and must study how to best do the conversions by 2010.
7. Language on disclosed source contains an error in that it doesn't deal with COTS - meaning, any electronics component with a chip on it would be required to disclose source code. There are literally hundreds of commercial off the shelf components in the system -- printers, video drivers, motherboard components -- that contain firmware, and these are manufactured all over the world. The bill would require Hitachi, Seagate, Fuji, Western Digital to open up their code for their commercial products if used in voting machines. Effectively eliminates the use of electronics while at the same time mandating electronics.
8. Mush language. (Example: "The manufacturer shall provide the appropriate election official with the information necessary for the official to provide the information...")
9. Unreadable: People complain about their legislators not reading the bills -- well the way this is written, it guarantees they won't read it. No Appendix, so sections of the bill require the reader to actually go find a different bill and look up sections in it in order to make sense of the current bill. (example: "Section 301(a)(1) of such Act (42 U.S.C. 15481(a)(1)) is amended (A) in subparagraph (A)(i), by striking "counted" and inserting "counted, in accordance with paragraphs (2) and (3)");
10. Audit protocols that no one agrees with, even fans of audit solutions*
*See this link for Holt Office response:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46681.html
11. Loophole allowing Internet connections for central tabulators and ballot definition software
12. Loophole allowing manual audits to be bypassed by states with computer-only recount protocols
13. Loophole allowing machine count to supercede voter verified paper when fuzzily described circumstances arise. Los Angeles Registrar Conny McCormack already has tried to co-opt this (Feinstein senate hearing yesterday) into meaning when there is a printer jam damaging the paper, the machine count will trump.
14. Supports DREs
So many people worked so very hard on this bill, but in the end it isn't about who worked hard. It's about getting it right. We can't afford another set of HAVA problems.
And if it's got this many problems now, just wait until the lobbyists carve it up.
Bev Harris
Founder - Black Box Voting
# # # # #
PERMISSION TO REPRINT OR EXCERPT GRANTED, WITH LINK TO http://www.blackboxvoting.org
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Bev Harris
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Site_admin
Post Number: 621
Registered: 10-2006
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, February 8, 2007 - 11:04 am: |
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LIST OF COSPONSORS
You can find your local representative by going to http://www.congress.org and entering your zip code. All members of congress should be informed before this comes up for a vote, but here are those that probably didn't read the bill very carefully and signed on as co-sponsors:
From VerifiedVoting.org:
According to page H1209 of the Congressional Record for the U.S. House of Representatives, on February 5, 2007, Rep. Rush Holt of New Jersey, along with the following original cosponsors, introduced H.R. 811, the Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act of 2007.
This bill is now posted to the Library of Congress website.
By Mr. HOLT (for himself,
Mr. TOM DAVIS of Virginia
Mr. WEXLER, Mr. EMANUEL
Mr. PETRI, Mr. WOLF
Mr. LEWIS of Georgia
Mr. LANGEVIN
Mr. COOPER
Mrs. JONES of Ohio
Mr. CLAY
Mr. SHAYS
Ms. KAPTUR
Mr. ENGLISH of Pennsylvania
Mr. HASTINGS of Florida
Mr. RAMSTAD
Mr. MEEK of Florida
Mr. ISSA
Mr. CUMMINGS
Mrs. BIGGERT
Ms. LEE
Mr. CASTLE
Ms. KILPATRICK
Mr. KUHL of New York
Ms. CORRINE BROWN of Florida
Mr. MACK, Mr. SCOTT of Virginia
Mr. ABERCROMBIE
Mr. ACKERMAN
Mr. ALLEN
Mr. BECERRA
Ms. BERKLEY
Mr. BERMAN
Mr. BERRY
Mr. BISHOP of Georgia
Mr. BLUMENAUER
Mr. BOREN
Mr. BOSWELL
Mr. BOUCHER
Mr. BOYD of Florida
Mr. BRADY of Pennsylvania
Mr. BRALEY of Iowa
Mr. BUTTERFIELD
Mrs. CAPPS
Mr. CARNAHAN
Mr. CHANDLER
Mr. COHEN
Mr. COSTA
Mr. COSTELLO
Mr. COURTNEY
Mr. CROWLEY
Mr. DAVIS of Illinois
Mr. LINCOLN DAVIS of Tennessee
Mrs. DAVIS of California
Mr. DEFAZIO
Ms. DEGETTE
Mr. DELAHUNT
Ms. DELAURO
Mr. DICKS
Mr. DINGELL
Mr. DOGGETT
Mr. DOYLE
Mr. EDWARDS
Mr. ELLISON
Mr. ENGEL
Ms. ESHOO
Mr. ETHERIDGE
Mr. FATTAH
Mr. FILNER
Mr. FORTUÑO
Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts
Mrs. GILLIBRAND
Mr. GONZALEZ
Mr. GORDON
Mr. GENE GREEN of Texas
Mr. GRIJALVA
Mr. GUTIERREZ
Mr. HALL of New York
Ms. HARMAN
Ms. HERSETH
Mr. HIGGINS
Mr. HINCHEY
Ms. HIRONO
Mr. HODES
Mr. HOLDEN
Mr. HONDA
Ms. HOOLEY
Mr. INSLEE
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas
Mr. JEFFERSON
Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of Texas
Mr. JOHNSON of Georgia
Mr. KAGEN
Mr. KENNEDY
Mr. KILDEE
Mr. KIND
Mr. KLEIN of Florida
Mr. KUCINICH
Mr. LANTOS
Mr. LARSEN of Washington
Mr. LOEBSACK
Mrs. LOWEY
Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York
Ms. MCCOLLUM of Minnesota
Mr. MCINTYRE, Mr. MCNULTY
Mrs. MALONEY of New York
Mr. MARSHALL
Mr. MATHESON
Ms. MATSUI
Mr. MELANCON
Mr. MICHAUD
Mr. MILLER of North Carolina
Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California
Mr. MITCHELL
Mr. MOLLOHAN
Mr. MOORE of Kansas
Mr. MORAN of Virginia
Mr. PATRICK MURPHY of Pennsylvania
Mr. NADLER
Mrs. NAPOLITANO
Ms. NORTON
Mr. OBERSTAR
Mr. OBEY
Mr. OLVER
Mr. ORTIZ
Mr. PALLONE
Mr. PASTOR
Mr. PAYNE
Mr. PETERSON of Minnesota
Mr. PRICE of North Carolina
Mr. REYES, Mr. ROTHMAN
Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD
Mr. RUPPERSBERGER
Mr. SALAZAR
Ms. LINDA T. SÁNCHEZ of California
Ms. LORETTA SANCHEZ of California
Ms. SCHAKOWSKY
Mr. SCHIFF
Ms. SCHWARTZ
Mr. SCOTT of Georgia
Mr. SERRANO
Mr. SHERMAN
Mr. SHULER
Ms. SLAUGHTER
Mr. SMITH of Washington
Ms. SOLIS
Mr. SPRATT
Mr. STARK
Mr. STUPAK
Ms. SUTTON
Mr. TANNER
Mrs. TAUSCHER
Mr. TAYLOR
Mr. TIERNEY
Mr. TOWNS
Mr. UDALL of Colorado
Mr. VAN HOLLEN
Mr. WALZ of Minnesota
Ms. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ
Ms. WATERS
Ms. WATSON
Mr. WAXMAN
Mr. WEINER
Ms. WOOLSEY
Mr. WU
Mr. WYNN
and Mr. ALTMIRE |
Donald R. Parkhill
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Greenlion
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 5:51 am: |
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being new to BBV, I am somewhat overwhelmed by all the information available here. I find my congressman listed as on of the co-sponsors of this bill. Has BBV or anyone connected with us written a detailed list of the flaws inherent in this proposed legislation that may serve as a model for a letter we may send under our signature to our congressman? I need some help here. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 3634
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:20 am: |
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Bob Fleischer's letter here is excellent.
If you look under some of the recent threads about this bill you'll see it broken up into sections with comments following each one.
The Advanced Search button (look on the left hand side) can be handy once you get used to it. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 5886
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 3:33 pm: |
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Holt's office has issues responses to several of the problems outlined above. To view the Holt office responses and comment, use the links below:
Holt response to Problem #2: Unfunded mandate for text converters
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46673.html
Holt response to Problem #3: Empowerment of the EAC
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46672.html
Holt response to Problem #4: Private vote for the military
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46674.html
Holt response to Problem #5: Citizen oversight
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46675.html
Holt response to Problem #6: Inconsistent deadlines for text converters
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46676.html
Holt response re Problem #7: COTS language for disclosed source
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46677.html
Holt response to audit sufficiency
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46681.html
Holt response to Problem #11, Internet permission with tabulator issue
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46684.html
Holt response to Problem # 12: audit bypass issues
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46685.html
Holt response to Problem #13: machine trump paper issue
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46686.html
Holt office response to Problem #14, continued support for DREs
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/46591/46687.html
...
Government is the servant of the people, and not the master of them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. We insist on remaining informed so that we may retain control over the instruments of government we have created.
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Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 3646
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 6:05 pm: |
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Thanks for separating out all these responses from Holt's office. It is easier to deal with them separately.
The responses don't inspire confidence, IMO. Rather they reinforce that this is a bad bill and it would be a fatal blow to American democracy. |
Bev Harris
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Site_admin
Post Number: 644
Registered: 10-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 8:15 pm: |
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Now I have her permission, so I'd like to provide attribution. It is Lisa Pease that has stepped in to assist with facilitation of dialogue here.
Lisa Pease
Blog: http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com
Perhaps her name should be spelled "Lisa Peace" |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 3655
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 4:06 am: |
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Thanks, Lisa, the dialogue is important and your efforts are greatly appreciated. |
From the Mailbag
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Mailbag
Post Number: 167
Registered: 10-2005
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 8:16 am: |
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From Kathy Dopp:
quote:
Thanks Lisa for this effort.
I've been trying to get Michelle to return a phone call or an email to me for months now without any success, despite the fact that I've been working on this issue now for almost as long as Michelle has, since 2003, although without any pay for my efforts. I do very much appreciate Michelle's long-term efforts though.
There are several points in my list of Holt flaws that Michelle has not yet responded to, including my points #5, 9, and 10 in this:
http://electionarchive.org/ucvInfo/US/ChangesNeeded2HR811.pdf
I would greatly appreciate responses to those points as well, along with additional responses to the lack of citizen access to election records that is a requirement for citizen oversight.
Best Regards,
Kathy Dopp
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Lisa Pease
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Lisapease
Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 2:45 pm: |
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I need to point out that those are not "Holt's office's responses," but rather, the result of a very informal conversation between me and Michelle Mulder, who works in Holt's office. That's not the same thing, and her comments were not intended to represent any official statement on behalf of Holt or his office.
In addition, these were only to be distributed to a private evoting list - I neglected to note Mulder's request that the responses not be made public, for fear of just this misrepresentation. These are NOT "Holt's Office's Responses." |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 3675
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:05 pm: |
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Thanks very much for this clarification, Lisa. I'm very glad you set the record straight.
I hope that Holt and his office will take the many serious concerns to heart, as per the specific requested changes just posted on another thread. |
John C. Ervin
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Muservin
Post Number: 39
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 5:48 pm: |
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Say no more, when deciding for or against Holt II: the Orwellian heist of our voter integrity fundamental language of "paper ballot" that was so simply effected by Rush Holt and his Known Associates, by simply calling a "paper trail" a paper ballot is, as The Bard might say, "The most unkind (paper) cut of all."
It told me, and everyone really watching, all I needed to know, without even the customary depression of further gory details ( although I'll do my own post-mortem of our current voting process, on my own ) and I didn't need more.
Such deceptive language is the most constantly practiced "art" of those defrauding our democracy. I read in Barron's "Legal Terms" today that "Constructive Fraud" is considered a fraud where the need to prove "the intent to defraud" is absent.
Well, Holt II is just such "Constructive" ( or aka "legal" ) fraud. You connect just a few dots in the language of this execrable HR 811, and you realize that the Democratic "Party" is merely the "Left Wing" of the only extant party in this country, "The Corporate Party." I said as much, all along, in the aftermath of the supposed takeover of Congress by "The Democrats." No surprise that it should be such a deceptive "victory" especially with Feinstein and her ilk in the mix.
For all I've got to give, put me down ~~here, there, everywhere~~ for two very swollen "thumbs down" on HR 811.
It's yet again a louder, heavier-handed, slap in the face of Americans and their democratic heritage and the needed and basic, simple reforms we need.
As the Kingston Trio often sang, "When will they ever learn?"
Hopefully, we will accelerate the date of Congress "learning" who owns this country, but it's clear ~as it's pretty much always been~ that there's going to be real WAR on this. And the war will be with virtually ALL our "elected" representatives, with only a handful of exceptions.
As we like to add as our tag line: "Go figure."
Peace, and Power to the People and Paper: John E |
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