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Message |
    
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7517
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 5:50 am: | 
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The "seals" are not seals. The "chain of custody" is not a chain of custody. Ballots being transported by the "state police" are actually transported by Butch and Hoppy, who are not employed by the state police. Butch and Hoppy's real names are not really Butch and Hoppy.
In New Hampshire, it's all hidden in plain sight.
If you are on the home page of Black Box Voting, click "more" to see a brief photo essay for how this all works. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7518
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 5:54 am: |
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"Butch" and "Hoppy"
"Butch" is on the left, "Hoppy" is on the right.
This is the van that "Butch" and "Hoppy" drive. These two men pick up all the ballots in New Hampshire from more than 230 locations and bring them to one central location for the recount. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7519
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 5:58 am: |
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They are followed by a single state trooper.
"Butch" has a real name: Armand Dubois. He doesn't like to be photographed and in video after video, he ducks out of the shots. He wears a baseball cap and dark glasses. At one point he said "you're taking a picture of me?"
Perhaps he's shy, but this is an evaluation of chain of custody, which includes knowing the names and background for people who ride around the state inside a van containing the ballots for the presidential primary election. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7520
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 6:04 am: |
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According to "Butch", the real name for "Hoppy" is Peter, but we do not yet know the last name. "Hoppy" is not camera shy, but we would like to know his real name and background. (Do not post personal or speculative information here. It will be removed. E-mail privately to crew@blackboxvoting.org )
"Hoppy"
aka "Peter" |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7521
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 6:05 am: |
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If photos appear as broken link, right-click and choose "show picture" -- this is a timing issue with our forum software and some computers and connections may experience this problem. Right click, show picture. That solves it. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7522
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 6:44 am: |
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Ballots are contained in a variety of cardboard boxes, with a few metal boxes thrown in from certain parts of Manchester. The New Hampshire secretary of state's office, which provides the labels for the boxes and provides the ballots for all the towns, claims they leave the decision up to the towns as to how to secure their ballots.
When people ask about the security of using old, used cardboard boxes to transport and store the official ballots for the presidential primary election, New Hampshire state officials quickly frame the issue as one of "frugality" and paint the problem over with rustic charm.
That doesn't address the problem. The random nature of the boxes enables both accidental and deliberate chain of custody breaches.
If the state of New Hampshire can provide the ballots and tell the towns what labels to use, they can tell them what container to store ballots in, or at the very least, publish guidelines for this. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7523
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 7:02 am: |
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Originally, the ballots were to be delivered to the state archive warehouse without notification to the public as to when they would arrive, and without permitting the public to photograph or videotape the ballot intake process.
The team assembled by Black Box Voting objected to this and insisted on public access to view the incoming ballot boxes and the intake process. We prevailed, at least temporarily.
So they have been bringing the ballots in the front door, taking them through the counting room, out the back door, through the electronically key-coded door into the archive warehouse, down the hall inside the key-carded warehouse, placing them in what they call a "vault" which is actually a small room with a lock that can be opened by a single key.
Ballots being transported from "vault" to counting room
Other items besides ballots have been kept in the "vault" as well:
Items left in ballot vault after transporting ballots, held in "vault" overnight, to the counting room.
Two other observations about the state archive warehouse:
They use the same bar code identification system for all items.
There are no windows and no way to observe what is going on in the warehouse. It has two loading bays in addition to the electronically key-carded door, and the counted ballots are NOT stored in the "vault" but rather, on shelves like all the other documents. Here is a photo of the loading bays:
As ballots are being transported back and forth to the warehouse "vault" and being counted in the counting room, boxes are being loaded and unloaded from the loading bay behind the building.
Shelves inside warehouse. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7524
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 7:10 am: |
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Ballot boxes photographed while being removed from the "vault":
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Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7525
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 7:19 am: |
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Secretary of state Bill Gardner has several assistant and deputy secretaries of state. The assistant secretary of state in charge of ballots and ballot chain of custody is David Scanlan.
Here is David Scanlon (far end) moving a ballot cart with state archive employee Brian Burford.
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Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7526
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 7:25 am: |
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Ballot box closeups:
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Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7527
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 8:04 am: |
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The box below was shipped from the secretary of state TO the town clerk. The pinkish label is a shipping lable and so is the label next to it saying "deliver to":
The rebuttal provided by state and archive employees to concerns about the particular slit shown above is that the label on the top is the only thing that counts.
I'll post a closeup photo of the top label further down. On the top label are the signatures of the selectmen and information about location and information about the ballots inside.
I chose the above photo because it provides a clear image of the SHIP TO labels and also shows the label on the box top that is said to secure the ballot box. I cannot tell from this photo whether the clear tape is on top of that label or underneath it, but let's give the benefit of the doubt and assume the label on top is further secured with clear plastic tape.
This is not a chain of custody. There is absolutely no way for any observer to tell whether the clear plastic tape (if it's over the top label) was affixed on the night of the election, by the town clerk after the election, by Butch and Hoppy or a person they met enroute, or in the vault in the middle of the night.
It is easy to get distracted with off-topic questions like "are you accusing Butch and Hoppy?" or to take at face value someone's statement that the tape was put there on election night.
THAT IS NOT A CHAIN OF CUSTODY.
The only item that even remotely resembles a chain of custody is the signed label on the top of the box. Since we have no idea when the other tape was put on, or who affixed it, that tape cannot be considered part of the chain of custody.
Furthermore, this taping of the label was not a consistent practice from box to box or town to town.
I think we can all understand that the town clerk would slit open the end of the box to retrieve shipped ballots.
That explains the slits that ONLY slit the two original shipping labels.
That doesn't answer the chain of custody questions revealed by the above slit. The questions raised by the above photo in my mind are:
1) Can someone get their hand into the slit?
2) Was the box slit secured by tape or anything when it came out of the van?
3) Was the box slit secured in any way at the town before pickup?
4) Is there any record of what the box looked like on election night and also, before pickup? In other words, do the signatures even match, is the tape in the same places.
5) If there is no tape securing the label at the top, it would be the ONLY thing securing the box since the sides are slit. If this label is removed, does it leave telltale evidence?
6) Does the slitting of the labels upon receipt of original ballots explain all openings on all ballot boxes?
Let's look into that a little further. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7528
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 8:16 am: |
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Here is a ballot box that has been opened for counting.
 |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7529
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 8:19 am: |
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Here is a ballot box that has been counted. It has both the lable affixed at the town with the selectmen's signatures on it, and a new label affixed to show it has been counted.
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Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7530
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 8:38 am: |
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Here is an empty ballot box with the top label attached. The ballots are in the process of being counted. As Anthony Stevens, from the sec. state office, watched I checked to see whether the labels on the top of the boxes leave any mark if you remove and reaffix.
They stopped my experiment after I had peeled about two inches.
I now call these labels "Post-Its".
It is important NOT to allow referring to these labels as "seals" because they are not seals, they are removable labels. When writing about the chain of custody in New Hampshire, we should not refer to the boxes as being "sealed" by these labels, which are in many cases the only line of defense when the end of the box top is sliced.
These are labels. Not seals. A "seal" actually "seals" the container. These labels do not seal it.
The person with responsibility for making sure the seals are actually seals is Assistant Secretary of State David Scanlan. He chose labels that are not seals. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7531
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 8:44 am: |
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I asked Scanlan if he believed the ballot boxes were secure when slit at the end. He said the boxes are secure because of the label on the top. Here's a hand in the slit. You decide if you are comfortable with this.
He was referring to what I call the "PostIt" note.
 |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7532
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 8:49 am: |
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After seeing the condition of the ballot boxes coming out of the vault, I was curious about the condition of the boxes as they were unloaded from the van. The photos below are of ballots unloaded from the van during the early afternoon of Thursday, Jan. 17:
 |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7533
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 8:52 am: |
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Let's have a closer look at that last box coming out of the van:
 |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7534
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 8:59 am: |
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Pat and Manny, the representatives for Kucinich, did not go back to the ballot vault with me. To the best of my knowledge, the only people who went back there were the Hillary Clinton observers.
The Kucinich representatives have said they are comfortable with the chain of custody. I did not see them take a single photograph, nor did I see them lodge any protest about this.
Republican ballots were also brought in, to the best of my knowledge, WITHOUT notifying the Republican candidate who has paid for a recount.
The next series of photos will be from the towns we visited to capture photos of the condition of the ballot boxes before they were loaded into the van. I will do that in a separate thread, perhaps later, and open this thread for discussion now.
In New Hampshire, the ballot chain of custody is a bunch of broken cardboard boxes with a post-it on top. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7535
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 9:00 am: |
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Okay, done for now. More later. |
Scott Perry
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Sgtperry
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 9:55 am: |
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All,
Not sure if you already have this info. I just joined the forum today.
Found our friend Armand's contact info....
Go to this link for Armand Dubois contact information.
http://admin.state.nh.us/directory/procSearch_internet.asp?FName=&LName=dubois&l stDepts2=&btnSearchPeople=Search+by+Name
God bless |
Scott Perry
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Sgtperry
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 9:58 am: |
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One more....
The only Peter in the SoS Records and Archives dept.
http://admin.state.nh.us/directory/procSearch_internet.asp?FName=peter&LName=&ls tDepts2=SECRETARY+OF+STATE&btnSearchPeople=Search+by+Name |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7537
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 9:59 am: |
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BBV participant Chris Reid has identified Hoppy.
His name is Peter Falzone. He provided a link to a state employee list with Peter "Pete" Falzone and an address for a Hoppy Falzone. He's a stock clerk. |
Jenny L. Hurley
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Bolivar
Post Number: 49
Registered: 12-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 10:07 am: |
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Remember, White Pages has a lot of phone numbers, if you need that. |
Scott Perry
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Sgtperry
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 10:09 am: |
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phone numbers are provided on the links above.
As well an email address for Hoppy. |
Jason Reed
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jasonr54
Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 11:24 am: |
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So. They PAY for state police and get Peter & Armand? It seems some one AT LEAST, has a refund comming.
Great work, BEV et al! You're an assett to the people. Your investigation was well worth your effort. (BIG HUG!) |
John Howard
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Harmonyguy
Post Number: 558
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 11:32 am: |
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Seals
It's not clear from any of the photographs whether or not any of the so-called seals are actually numbered.
In Canadian Federal elections, the box seals are individually numbered and must be signed for and accounted for, even if the extras are unused. The numbers of the seals placed on the top AND bottom of the boxes, are recorded on the equivalent of the precinct summary report, and become part of the record of the election. Numbered seals are not removed, but are instead cut, so that if a box needs to be resealed for some legitimate reason (which must also be documented) there is a record of every seal placed on the box, to whom the numbered seal was issued, and by whom the replacement numbered seal was affixed.
Keep in mind also, that the consistently sized, numbered seals are made specifically for the consistently sized boxes that are used for the transport of the marked ballots. The supposedly 'frugal' use of inconsistent recycled boxes from heaven-knows-where simply isn't an option.
HG;)
(Message edited by harmonyguy on January 20, 2008) |
christine c reid
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:03 pm: |
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I myself didn't have a lens through which to evaluate chain of custody and election integrity questions, and thought it would be helpful to read the thinking of professionals whose job it is to protect and ensure the integrity of evidence -- criminal investigators.
For any novices also interested in such a point of comparison, I've excerpted a few quotes that related to Bev Harris's reports from the field.
The quotes are from this link:
http://instructor.mstc.edu/instructor/mbessett/Criminal%20Investigation%20Theory %201/Physical%20Evidence%20Handbook%20Chapter%202.pdf
I cannot identify the original source or author from the actual PDF, but it appears to be M Bessett, Criminal Investigation Theory, Physical Evidence Handbook.
BEGIN QUOTES:
. . .In any criminal investigation, the validity of information derived from examination of the physical evidence depends entirely upon the care with which the evidence has been protected from contamination [CR Note: In the case of elections, the contamination is of election results, e.g. theft/substitution/ destruction/changing of votes on ballots or theft of ballot stock] In other words, if the evidence has been improperly collected, handled, or stored, its value may be destroyed and no amount of laboratory work [CR note: or election recounting] will be of assistance. Therefore, it is important that items of evidence be collected, handled, and stored in a way that will ensure their integrity. In doing so, the likelihood is increased that useful information can be extracted by examination and that the item will be considered admissible in court proceedings. It is important to properly collect, seal, and identify collected items for two reasons. First, you must be able to prove that the item introduced in court is the same item that was collected at the scene [CR note: or, in this case, whether the ballots being counted are the ones originally voted]. Second, you must ensure that the item is not altered or contaminated between the time it is collected and the time it is examined forensically or entered as evidence. These objectives are best achieved by proper packaging and sealing of evidence.
. . . On packaging materials: Packaging materials should protect the item from contamination, tampering, or alteration. To help select an appropriate packaging method,
ask two questions:
1. What information is sought from analysis?
2. What could cause the item itself or the sample sought to deteriorate?
With respect to the first question, ask yourself, “Why am I collecting this item? What piece of information might it give me that will
help prove this case?” Knowing what you’re seeking will help to identify unacceptable packaging methods.
Only new, unused materials should be used to package evidence. If the packaging has been previously used, trace evidence can be imparted to the item, negating the value of some examinations. [CR note: in this case, consider nonstandard box types, presence of multiple labels, old tape on the box that may render seal peelable (slick surface), and old box damage as contamination of evidence that no breaking of seals or opening of boxes has occurred from date and time of sealing] Common packaging materials include: paper, cardboard, plastic, metal cans, and glass. [CR Note: Author states that plastic is a surface to which some tamper evident tapes will not adhere. I have to ask if the metal boxes used were tested to ensure that the seals would adhere without undetectable removal. Both the material of the container and the compatibility of the selected tape -- seal and packaging tape -- are relevant and should be tested before using.]
D. Tamper-proof tapes. Tamper-proof tapes are destroyed by efforts to remove them. Traditionally, the security feature was created by a combination of a tenacious adhesive and a low tensile strength backing. Some new tapes change color or have words develop when disturbed. The tapes come both in long rolls and in short, individual strips. These tapes are advertised as providing tamper-proof seals on all surfaces. In reality, some brands of tape can be removed from plastic bags without evidence of tampering. [CR note: Important - take a cardboard box with "old" plastic tape over it, tape that seal over the plastic tape, and that seal even if tamper evident MAY peel right off.] Always check for permanence on an identical test object before using a particular tape. If the brand of tape or packaging is changed, retest. [CR comment: it is impossible to carry out this step when using NONidentical test objects -- boxes -- as a FEATURE of the election procedures]
[CR note: this is on the subject of taping boxes with e.g. filament tape]: always write your initials over the ends of the tape -- if it is removed, it will be nearly impossible to realign the initials.
One advantage of tamper-proof tapes is that they are designed to shred or tear when pulled or stressed. This advantage is a potential disadvantage, however, if a mechanically strong joint is required.
Unless somehow reinforced, the tape may spontaneously shred if stressed. When the tape joint may be strained, use another method to secure the joint (tape, staples, etc.) and then use tamper-proof tape across the joint. Some tamper-proof tapes will not adhere to very cold metal surfaces.
END OF QUOTE SERIES |
Bob Fleischer
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Rjf7r
Post Number: 160
Registered: 9-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 1:29 pm: |
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The "seals" did not appear to have any numbering, either preprinted or hand written.
My impression is that, the couple of times I hired moving companies to move the contents of my home, they did a far more thorough job of numbering, describing, and documenting the pieces than did the people who packed and moved the ballots in NH.
Most if not all of the boxes I saw (on that one day, the first day of the re-count) had a separate label on them with an inventory control number and bar code. |
Michael DiSalvo
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Petrusprimus
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 3:02 pm: |
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Where are we as far as CRIMINAL charges go in NH? I can think of at least 3 circumstances deserving of felonies for various officials involved. Are we going to play softball with these guys, giving them 1000s of dollars in a mock recount that doesn't make a difference or are we going to put these degenerates IN PRISON? |
christine c reid
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 3:15 pm: |
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John Howard - have you seen any electronic documents describing this Canadian protocol? I have gone through some electronic info from Canada that's quite interesting, but haven't yet found this protocol. I did find highly detailed descriptions of putting the cast, spoiled, and uncast ballots etc. in separate sealed envelopes before sealing all into the ballot box.
New Hampshire's Voting Procedures Manual is here:
http://www.sos.nh.gov/FINAL%20EPM%208-30-2006.pdf
NH election procedures protocol for state elections (not federal primaries) specifies putting votes into a container supplied by the NH SOS (quote to follow) - can anyone from NH clarify/enlighten on this point? Also, I would note that the manual is admirably detailed and in many ways an example. I am unable to find any reference to chain of custody as regards centralized recount procedures. Perhaps others can point it out.
BEGIN QUOTE
SEALING AND CERTIFYING BALLOTS. Ballots must be sealed immediately after the votes at a state election have been tabulated, the results have been announced, and the return prepared. The moderator or his or her designee, in the presence of the selectmen or their designee, shall place the:
• Cast ballots;
• Canceled ballots;
• Uncast ballots;
• Ballots from any additional polling places; and
• Successfully challenged absentee ballots
in containers supplied by the Secretary of State.
RSA 659:97. The container shall be sealed in public by the moderator with the sealer provided by the Secretary of State. RSA 659:97. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7538
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 3:17 pm: |
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We have a name for the green SUV -- which is actually a green jeep -- that rendevouzed with Butch and Hoppy on Thursday. It was brief - green jeep sitting by road waiting for them, one of them hops out and goes across the road to jeep, says something to driver of green jeep,
jeep turns north and Hoppy/Butch turn south for more pickups.
Again, do not post personal or speculative information here, but your emails have been quite helpful.
The jeep belongs to Carl E. Rowell Jr. of Lyndeborough. He does not appear to be a public official.
No personal information allowed to be posted here, remember, nor names of family members. We have name of wife. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 4467
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 3:50 pm: |
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Thanks Bev for all this great work.
Those photos speak volumes. The NH "box" system is a disaster. The "chain of custody" is a joke. I won't bother commenting on the van and SUV drivers. The whole thing reeks.
NH staff, volunteers and voters should be hopping mad that a few weak links can so effectively and completely undermine their sincere efforts to run clean elections. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 4468
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 3:52 pm: |
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quote:They are followed by a single state trooper.
Where was the state trooper when you were following the white van and witnessed the rendezvous with the green jeep? |
Steve Goettler
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Stever
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 4:33 pm: |
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What is it going to profit anyone if all of this evidence is just going to be ignored? Will any of these findings come to bear on the recount?
It seems that the SOS and the media are saying that nothing will be found to change the initial count, so who is going to care? How does anything that is found that is to be questionable going to matter? |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7539
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 4:34 pm: |
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Directly behind the white van. Parked behind them for the rendezvous. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 4469
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 4:43 pm: |
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Any idea who the lone state trooper was? |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7540
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 4:59 pm: |
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We'll find out. And it would be fascinating if he was the same guy that followed Dubois and Falzone in 2004 with the Nader recount.
to Steve: I dunno. What's your suggestion? Why don't you get into the Citizens Tool Kit and pick a module and get busy. Let us know what you are doing to pull some weight on this.
Here's the Citizen's Tool Kit: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/toolkit.html
Pick something, take one action, let us know how it goes. Don't wait for others or sit criticizing on the sidelines. Trust your own common sense and get this information to where you think it will do the most good. |
Bill Bowen
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Bbowen8
Post Number: 44
Registered: 11-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 6:00 pm: |
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It looks like Carl owns his own business in Lyndeborough, although what exactly the company does isn't listed:
This is public information.
http://www.ecspace.us/Business/%40New+Jersey/Rowell.Carl.Jr.%26.Gail/ODExODc3NQ |
Timothy A. Balcer
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Knome
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 6:29 pm: |
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That's odd... Google maps puts that address in the middle of nowhere...
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1711+Center+Rd,+Lyndeborough,+NH+03082,+USA&ie=UTF 8&ll=42.885838,-71.790998&spn=0.003388,0.006888&t=h&z=17&om=0 |
John Howard
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Harmonyguy
Post Number: 559
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 4 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 7:39 pm: |
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Christine,
During training for each Federal election, each poll worker is issued a manual specific to their particular role. Unfortunately, none of those manuals appear to be available online, however the combined manual for Deputy Returning Officers and Poll Clerks have detailed, illustrated instructions showing what numbered seals to place where. There is also a Seal Control Sheet on which the numbered seals are listed and their use recorded.
Although not from the actual DRO manual, there is an excellent example of how boxes are sealed at the following link:
Placement of Seals on Elections Canada Ballot Box
This link is from an educational series that Elections Canada provides, called Election off the Shelf which is designed to facilitate University and College Elections. While not identical in every regard to the conduct of a real Federal Election, it IS VERY close, and serves as a good example of how to establish appropriate controls and chain of custody. It also includes a great assortment of sample forms.
Election off the Shelf
You may find it interesting reading.
HG;) |
Bill Bowen
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Bbowen8
Post Number: 45
Registered: 11-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 7:48 pm: |
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I have found a similar, alternate business address for Mr. Rowell, but it looks like it may be the same as his home address. So I'm not going to post that here.
The odd part about the other two listings I found online under the business name list under business category: "None". And under business type, also: "None". |
Jeremy Trudell
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Tbuddha
Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2005
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 9:27 pm: |
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Bev, I must say this is the stuff of legend. Fantastic, amazing work! I can't compliment you enough, you make the world a better place!
I'm happy to report in Colorado, for now, it appears we're going to all hand counted paper ballots. We have such a great team of people who attacked the issue from so many angles and I personally went along to serve the NCEL to our SOS, the Gov, and the AG. Their employees hated our cameras, it was hysterical and reminded me of bugs scurrying when you lift up a rock.
Thank you so much Bev for all that you do. If you're ever in Denver, look me up, drinks are on me! |
Allegra Dengler
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Greendobbs
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 3 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 9:46 pm: |
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I was an observer on Friday. I was surprised that old cardboard boxes were used- used Staples boxes, Quill boxes, boxes apparently reused for more than one election. I'm all for recycling, but this is a careless way to carry valuable paper. Would they transport and store boxes of $100 bills this way? The "seals" on the top were really labels, and much less securely attached than the label on a FedEx box I just got. Because the boxes were reused, there was a lot of tape of different kinds on the box. Forget about the top of the box with the "seal." Anyone could just flip the box over and cut open the bottom, then reseal and no-one would notice. I did not examine the bottoms of the boxes, since I only thought of that after I left. We were not allowed to touch the boxes or the ballots. I have pictures also. |
Susan Lynn Patton
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Susan_lynn
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2008 - 11:52 pm: |
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To get an understanding of the scope of the machinery that might be interested in tampering with an election, you, and everyone, might want to read the following article:
http://www.newmediajournal.us/guest/k_miller/07212007.htm
be sure and click on the last link, which will take you to "The Parks Murder, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Free Republic.com"
Allegra--I too thought of what you mentioned...what good is a seal on the top when the box can be entered easily from the bottom.
I wonder why officials are so adamant that, "Everything's fine," when even the most casual observer can see the possibilities for tampering "in your face"!} |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7541
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 2:27 am: |
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Susan,
Welcome to Black Box Voting!
We are a nonpartisan site, and we usually segregate candidate mentions into the "talk politics" forum and even there, we can't permit anything that can be considered campaigning. Your post contains information that is procedure-based as well, so I couldn't easily move it to that section. It will help if you avoid using candidates names except in the talk politics section, and even there, no pro or con. I unfortunately had to edit out your candidate-based comments. Sorry, and glad you are here.
The link above also leads to investigative reporting discussing someone who is now a candidate. Black Box Voting has not vetted out that material and it does not necessarily represent the views of this site. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7542
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 2:36 am: |
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Allegra - very valuable report! Thank you for this. If you get a chance, email your photos or post them here. I have not photographed the bottom of the boxes and you make an important point.
Also - I have been thinking about the unsealed banker boxes they have in the vault. What's up with that? Why would you keep ballots in the vault and also other stuff in unsealed boxes?
Note that after we got this information they stopped letting citizens see anything in the vault or behind the warehouse doors. |
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 1758
Registered: 1-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 4:55 am: |
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New slogan: "No ones stealing our elections, we're GIVING them away. This is like putting a hen house up in the middle of a forest, without any protection at all. The weasels eat well, but nobody else benefits...... |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 4477
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 5:06 am: |
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quote:No ones stealing our elections, we're GIVING them away
Great slogan, Brant. |
Doug Fields
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Def94528
Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 8:23 am: |
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Great job Bev and the rest of the crew. The security for the recount is sloppy best. Its obvious the chain of custody is broken and William M. Gardner (SOS) has done little to protect the ballots.
Hopefully one of the candidates starts a lawsuit immediately. Too bad the mainstream media is not covering the recount. |
matt youmans
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Schoolsout
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 8:54 am: |
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Along with others, I thank all those for their hard work and tireless efforts. It is a shame that not many people are even aware of the problems. |
christine c reid
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 9:36 am: |
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NO COMMENT SECTION:
NH SOS is offering grants to NH towns for records storage improvements. Note the photos
http://www.sos.nh.gov/VitalRecords/VR_pres_grants.html
The improvements described include having using lidded boxes for permanently stored documents, having a protocol for taking out and returning documents for viewing, and having a protocol for moving documents. This is all from the SOS office. |
Howard Randall Smith
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Tidalcreek
Post Number: 65
Registered: 2-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 10:40 am: |
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Ditto Brant
Stealing elections? We're GIVING them away!
Until there's a cure… HCPB
Randy
|
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 4483
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 1:11 pm: |
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Christine,
Great link. The pictures on the front page say it all. My mouth dropped open. |
Jody Hoelle
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Chandidevi
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 1:51 pm: |
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I used to monitor elections here in Southern California. The boxes in which the ballots were placed, were green metal and EXTREMELY SECURE UNDER LOCK AND KEY...made simply for the purpose of storing ballots. Once the boxes were sealed, they could not be opened again except with a key and only by certain people who were certified to work on the counting of ballots. I don't get all these flimsy cardboard boxes. That, in and of itself, seems like a clear violation. |
christine c reid
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 21
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 2:20 pm: |
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Thanks, Jody. In a state that uses secure metal boxes, you don't have to blame out of staters or angrily defend that you're serious about securing ballots - the actions and procedures say it all.
If anyone else would like to put their state or municipalities' practices up alongside by comparison, that would be constructive and useful information to see. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7543
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 2:28 pm: |
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Suggest posting photos of real ballots boxes here. (Make sure they are sized no larger than 3 inches by 4 inches).
Black Box Voting has an antique ballot box from the 1800s which is made of sturdy metal and has a brass key. We also have a metal ballot box from Palm Beach County. Suggest checking ebay for photos of what real ballot boxes look like. |
Howard Randall Smith
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Tidalcreek
Post Number: 66
Registered: 2-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 4:30 pm: |
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I'm reading "The Riverkeepers" by John Cronin and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., about taking on polluters, like Exxon, and cleaning up the Hudson River. So much of that story reminds me of our story with elections. If there are any attorneys writing in these forums I hope you are looking at legal precedent and strategies for helping to put elections back in the hands of citizens. Rock on.
Randy
|
Kathleen Wynne
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Kathleen_wynne
Post Number: 347
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 5:13 pm: |
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Howard,
I was involved in a trial which took place in Cuyahoga County, Ohio. It dealt with the 2004 presidential recount where two election officials admitted to counting the votes in private before the recount. This was a clear violation of Ohio election law.
During the investigation of that case, I was told by the prosecuting attorney that in preparing for the trial, he had no legal precedence nor case law to help bolster his case. He also told me that election-related cases are very difficult to bring to trial, much less win.
As a result of this truth, the case was eventuall won primarily because citizens had access during that recount and were also given the ability to document the activities during the recount process (not after) and collect the evidence that brought the case to trial. Evidence gathered by citizens participating in the process was the reason for the guilty verdicts of the two election officials.
What Bev and the other election reform advocates are doing in NH by gathering evidence of the this recount is key in our being able to show (not tell) the rest of the country exactly why we must get rid of the machines and return to hand counts.
BTW, your absolutely right. Elections do belong in the hands of the people -- not in the software of the machines.
Kathleen
(Message edited by Kathleen_Wynne on January 21, 2008) |
Emily Citraro
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ecitraro
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 10:35 pm: |
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I was thinking that the care taken with mail is not taken with our votes, which made me think about the steel drop boxes for mail, which deposit the mail into a bin... imagine a bin that folds closed, and is sealed.
 |
Bill Geis
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ipsecure
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:23 pm: |
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The link shows this guy works for the New Jersey Federal Government Office!
Look at the directory tree!
Home > Community & Government > Government Offices > Federal > Federal Government Offices > @New Jersey
http://www.ecspace.us/Business/%40New+Jersey/Rowell.Carl.Jr.%26.Gail/ODExODc3NQ
Why?
Who Governs the governless?
Constitutionalists vs Federalists
|
Joel Morine
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Erased
Post Number: 55
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 6:49 am: |
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"In a state that uses secure metal boxes, you don't have to blame out of staters or angrily defend that you're serious about securing ballots - the actions and procedures say it all.
"If anyone else would like to put their state or municipalities' practices up alongside by comparison, that would be constructive and useful information to see."
Would this work best with a thread that began with a template for what practices we wished to compare, that people could clip-paste as a first step to posting, filling in aspects they had info for...
and
...limiting that thread JUST to the info itself, with a second parallel thread for commentary, questions, analysis, opinions re: that info ? |
Kat Kanning
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Kat_kanning
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 9:20 am: |
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Bev Harris: tried to email you all, but didn't get through. I was wondering if I could print your findings about the NH primary in the Keene Free Press? (http://keenefreepress.com)
Thanks!
Kat Kanning
editor at keenefreepress dot com
(Message edited by Kat_Kanning on January 22, 2008) |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 4487
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:36 am: |
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I think all Bev's reports explicitly say that it's ok to copy them as long as you use the reports in their entirety and as long as you attribute them properly.
The whole point of BBV is to get information out there--so as long as you're reproducing the information accurately and stating clearly where you got it, I would think she & BBV would be delighted.
You could also try leaving a message on her cell phone. Why wouldn't an email get through? (And how would you know--did it bounce?) |
Kat Kanning
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Kat_kanning
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 11:52 am: |
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Thanks! I just didn't get an answer to the email. Figured they were pretty busy  |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 4488
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:00 pm: |
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Yes, I am sure they are very busy and Bev says she typically gets 600 emails a day or more. |
Daniel Frank McMullan
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Seevotedan
Post Number: 144
Registered: 3-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:23 pm: |
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You need a system the DOES NOT rely on a chain-of-custody. I mean really .. who guards the guards anyway? BBV? ..then who guards you guys?
it never end$$$.
Only the voter can guard their own ballot! |
Doremus Jessup
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Doremusjessup
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 6:39 pm: |
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What is needed are ballot boxes comprised of a welded metal (angle iron) frame with something like 1/4" thick or thicker clear plexiglass / Lexan sides. Here in Berkeley County, WV, they are solid blue painted sheet steel (or perhaps aluminum), but can't see inside. The bottom would be solid metal and the top would be metal as well with an internal hinge. The top would have a ballot-sized slot in it, and under this slot, inside lid, would be a metal flap that, at the close of the election, would be wing-nut screwed tight to seal the ballot slot from the inside. The top lid would have a welded metal lip all around to make inserting additional ballots impossible. Now all that's left to figure out is the best lid lock and seal. In Berkeley County, WV, they use what appear to be the same thing as electrical company box seals - a wire going into a numbered plastic tag that gets crimped. |
Susan Lynn Patton
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Susan_lynn
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:46 am: |
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Supposing, in theory, that an entity which falsified diebold machine counts also planned to manipulate paper ballots cast in machine locations, in case of a recount. And they needed 15,000 unmarked paper ballots to do so. Could they get them? I imagine that if an entity had ties with Diebold they could get the Diebold printers to print extra? |
Erich Specht
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Frogmarchbush
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:05 pm: |
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BradBlog is reporting that the Dem recount has been stopped due to funds running out:
Link here |
Tony DeMott
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Tony_demott
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 5:20 pm: |
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It looks like Kucinich has pulled out this morning, according to We The People. |
Tony DeMott
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Tony_demott
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 5:27 pm: |
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The news is that Kucinich was offered the money he needed to keep going, so it was a big shock for him to throw in the towel.
There is an immediate call for observers by Bob Shulz of We The People. The Republican candidate is all that is keeping this going and he is in short supply of observers.
As we all know, without observers we are back to square one. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 7544
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 8:09 pm: |
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Tony,
Please source your material. "the news is" might be rumor, gossip, or even malicious smearing - without specifics there is no way to assess it. Who offered the money? Is there a source for that? |
Tony DeMott
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Tony_demott
Post Number: 9
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 5:00 am: |
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Bob Schulz said in a video conference last night, that they had donors willing to cover the cost. He asked the Kucinich people to inform him before pulling out for monetary reasons. |
christine c reid
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 10:03 am: |
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NH SOS DUTIES PER NH STATUTES ON CONTAINERS, TOWNS' DUTIES ON UNUSED BALLOTS, SPOILED BALLOTS
Let me start with a quote from a letter from Congressman Kucinich (Link: bradblog - http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5598#more-5598) requesting that the NH SOS continue the recount in light of errors that have been found:
"Whenever there are indications of over-voting, an accounting of spoiled and unused ballots is also justified."
Further following up on NH statutes, we see the following that point to discrepancies between statute and what appears to be happening on the ground:
Section 659:97
659:97 Secretary of State to Prepare Containers, Sealers. – The secretary of state shall, before any state election, prepare and distribute to each town and ward clerk containers to be used for preserving ballots and sealers to seal each such container. He shall prepare special containers and sealers to be used for preserving any special and separate ballots for questions to voters. The secretary of state shall prescribe the size and form of such containers and sealers and shall prescribe the form of any endorsement blank printed upon the sealers, provided that the blank is in substance consistent with the provisions of RSA 659:95.
Source. 1979, 436:1, eff. July 1, 1979.
IN OTHER WORDS, it would appear that the SOS's office is statutorily required to provide towns with uniform boxes for ballots and seals for said ballots, prior to the election.
Second, coming back to the Kucinich quote which indicates a lack of reconciliatio of unused and spoiled ballots, again quoting statute:
Immediately after the ballots cast at a state election have been tabulated and the result has been announced and the return has been made, the moderator or the moderator's designee, in the presence of the selectmen or their designee,
shall place the cast, cancelled, and uncast ballots, including such ballots from any additional polling places, and further including the successfully challenged absentee ballots still contained in their envelopes, in the containers provided by the secretary of state
as required by RSA 659:97 and shall seal such container with the sealer provided by the secretary of state as required by RSA 659:97.
(end quote)
Where are they? Have they been sent to Concord as required by law? (Note that the polling registration book is not required to be placed in the container).
In terms of running out of ballots, the NH statutes say: 659:24 Unofficial Ballots. – If the supply of ballots shall become exhausted before the closing of the polls, it shall be the duty of the town or city clerk to cause unofficial ballots to be prepared as provided in RSA 658:35. Except as provided in this section and in RSA 658:35, no ballot without the official endorsement shall be allowed to be deposited in the ballot box.
Source. 1979, 436:1, eff. July 1, 1979. (end of quote)
Are municipalities that prepare additional ballots required in any way to supervise and log their creation, log in numbers of additional created vs. used, control the master and inventory, and include any unused additional ballots with the uncounted ballots sealed in the "container"? Is this common sense implicit judgment required to be spelled out?
Where is the original number of ballots received in each municipality (from the SOS) recorded in NH and is this number available to the candidates requesting the recount? where/how?
A comparison of the SOS records on "number sent" and municipalities' stated "number received" is probably also a good chain of custody piece of information. |
Dwight Rousu
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Rousu
Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2005
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 11:56 pm: |
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Another source of procedures for chain of custody are the Department of Defense procedures for having custody of classified materials. An individual with an appropriate clearance must sign a hand receipt for each item. If custody is transferred to another individual, the next individual must sign a hand receipt and give a copy to the previous custodian. If the hand receipt gets full, the old one must be sent to a central security office and a new receipt attached to the item. Each item not in personal view of the custodian must be in an approved locked container or room in an approved alarmed or guarded facility.
This is perhaps more restrictive than necessary for ballots, but is instructive of a procedure for chain of custody when it is considered important. |
Joel Morine
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Erased
Post Number: 69
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 7:40 am: |
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There do seem to quite a few equally, and less, significant realms wherein effective procedures for chain of custody and accountability have been developed and employed with, at least, more credibility, if in some cases no more transparency. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 4514
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 11:24 am: |
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Hi Dwight,
Thank you for posting that information. Between banks and Dept. of Defense and crime lab sampling it's clear that well-documented chain of custody is clearly understood in many domains. There is no excuse for the lackadaisical approach taken with how ballots, memory cards and voting machines are handled. |
