Question/Paper ballot initiatives

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Author Message   james clauer Voting Rights Forum Participant Username: Jamesclauer Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2012 Best of Black Box?  Votes: 1 (A keeper?) Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 - 1:41 pm:        Hi, First time posting here so please bare with me. If anyone can enlighten me on why there is no current major initiatives out there supporting a return to paper ballots and hand counting please do so. I may be unaware of why an initiative such as this wouldn't have major grass-roots support nation wide. I understand that voting lists are also problematic, but it seems that if the ballot and counting issues were resolved, we would be making major progress toward transparent, free, and fair elections. Understandably, many proponents (manufacturers) and states that have spent huge resources and time to make the transition to e-voting wouldn't be so easily converted, and it would be an uphill battle to go in the opposite direction, but I would think that any CITIZEN would be happy to sign a petition for returning to the paper and hand counts. There seems to be no just future in electronic voting that I can think of. Would something like this even be possible, or make much difference in federal, state, and or local elections? Also, Do presidential preference primaries fall under any state or federal jurisdictions? After seeing what has happened during this current primary season, I wouldn't be surprised if the RNC or DNC were to stop holding nominating contests at some point and just "present" their candidate to the world, which is what some may argue they are doing already. Thans for your time, any insight would be appreciated.   Bev Harris Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 11672 Registered: 12-2004 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Monday, July 2, 2012 - 6:56 pm:        Hi James, Goodness, I completely let this one slip by me. Sorry it took forever to respond. Ireland scrapped its machines, Germany dumped theirs, and Iceland took back their own misbehaving government. We have a number of vested interests here that are unfriendly towards real, meaningful election transparency... an entrenched and self serving "experts" consultantcy, and global multinationals twisted up with a mostly US dominated investment banking industry that really wants to be able to put thumbs on the scale of public policy. Ireland dumped their machines based on security issues following a hack demonstration. Vote counting computers can never be made "secure" from those who run them, of course. Germany tackled it in a way that provides a more durable principle: They ruled that the public must be able to see and authenticate all essential steps without need for special expertise, and that no after the fact procedure can be substituted for public right to authenticate the original count.   Bev Harris Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 11673 Registered: 12-2004 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Monday, July 2, 2012 - 6:58 pm:        Regarding presidential primary selections, it has always been a heavy-handed bunch of political gamesmanship. Yes, the Republicans were brazen about rigging their own game this time. And something new, we had a bunch of investment banker billionaires decide they might like to put their own candidate in, using an Internet voting scheme called AmericansElect. It flopped (though we may get some sort of nasty surprise), but expect to see it come back again.   Francois Choquette Voting Rights Forum Participant Username: Ronrules Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2012 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Tuesday, July 3, 2012 - 11:26 am:        Your nasty surprise is here already: http://www.americanselect.org/ "See you in 2013" (see at the bottom of the screen) Looking at their website, they have quite an extensive backing. They also have expensive buses! BTW, I think AmericansElect "flopped" because Ron Paul had basically won their primary. He was way ahead of everyone else and very close to their 10,000 "vote" requirement. They just didn't want that guy and pulled the plug. I read that $35 million was spent on this effort.   Kurt Bellman Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant Username: Realkurtb Post Number: 106 Registered: 6-2011 Best of Black Box?  Votes: 1 (A keeper?) Posted on Wednesday, July 4, 2012 - 4:27 am:        Here's why Americans*Elect failed - naivete. They thought they could carry the day based on an idea. The two main parties won't allow that. Ideas must be filtered through their infrastructures. There are only two types of organizations that can fundamentally change the way Presidents are nominated, the parties (RNC, DNC), and the state legislatures. I work for the latter. They like things just as they are - BOTH sides of the aisle. They like that the insiders choose the nominees, and they like that it is so ridiculously difficult for a third option to get on the ballot. As far as the parties and the legislators are concerned, the present system is just ducky.   Bev Harris Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 11676 Registered: 12-2004 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Wednesday, July 4, 2012 - 6:06 am:        Insightful post, Kurt. But AmericansElect will be back. They are not exactly outsiders, and had their own system structured from the start to give a lift to candidates they wanted and push down those they didn't. I'll tell you what AmericansElect DID achieve, however: Massive demographic data collection on millions of Americans. Their questionnaire was hundreds and hundreds of political position questions. I started answering it. Then after a couple dozen rather intrusive questions, I started providing bogus answers. Then, after 300 questions, I just quit answering. It was clear to me that their data collection process was elaborate, and I wonder who they are sharing that data with?   Kurt Bellman Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant Username: Realkurtb Post Number: 109 Registered: 6-2011 Best of Black Box? N/A Votes: 0 (A keeper?) Posted on Friday, July 6, 2012 - 11:09 am:        LOL Bev, I'm way too paranoid for that! Much more than name, rank, and serial number usually has me looking for the exits. Same reason I refuse to have a Facebook account - way too infocreepy.

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The public must be able to see and authenticate these four essential steps for an election to be public, democratic, and valid: (1) Who can vote (voter list); (2) Who did vote (3) The original count; (4) Chain of custody.