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CLICK STATE TO SEE:
"WATCH LIST"
Marked with: 
"OPEN & HONEST"
Marked with: 
...
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| Races that might have been stolen |
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| Author |
Message |
    
Donovan Levinson
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Lofi
Post Number: 40
Registered: 4-2008
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 5 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 7:33 am: | 
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SUBJECT: Scrutinize these races and issue results more closely
NATIONAL: Although there was no big surprise last night in the presidential election, there were several other races and ballot measures that I deem questionable.
Minnesota: Franken vs. Coleman
Here the late-arriving counties disproportionately helped Coleman. My prediction late in the night based on what precincts were still not reporting was that Franken should have won with a cushion of several thousand votes. I wake up this morning to a different outcome and definitely challenge the results. Currently Franken trails by less than 600 votes. Unfortunately I was not gathering data on the senate races last night.
Alaska: Stevens vs. Begich
Are we really to believe that Alaskans voted to elect a five time felon Stevens? I see the results in the entire state of Alaska as highly suspect. Begich is currently only a few thousand votes behind Stevens, with 3% still not reporting. Although it looked like it was going to Stevens even early on in the night, it seems out of line with recent polling, and I believe the Alaska exit poll showed a much tighter race for president than the official results indicate.
California: Proposition 8
This is probably a real shocker to a lot of people. California just voted to ban gay marriage by a margin of about 400,000 votes. Early exit polls indicated the measure to be defeated by a similar margin.
I'm sure there many others that I missed. Please add to the list with other races whose outcome is questionable last night. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 10074
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 8:05 am: |
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Excellent, thanks Donovan. I haven't heard what happened with the Maryland gambling initiative, but that one needs a close look because gambling initiatives are always fertile ground for tampering. The same goes for sheriff's races.
Shocking on the California initiative. Needs a county by county breakdown.
Got a report on the mechanism for central tabulator data transfer to SOE Software. It's done with a thumb drive, data taken off county tabulator, put on USB drive, put on another computer, transmitted to SOE, then the thumb drive is put back in the county tabulator. That enables SOE, if it chooses to, to pump data back into the County tabulator. Also, Broward County reportedly has PC Anywhere on their tabulator. |
Ken Farbstein
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Kmf9
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 1:43 pm: |
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Bev, Kevin Drum seems to agree with you. He writes in his blog, reprinted in the 11/5/08 e-issue of Mother Jones:
"UPDATE: This is actually a weird repeat of what happened in 2004. This year, all the Dem pickups have been in states where they won by big margins (seven points or more). Conversely, all the close races look like they're going to be won by Republicans, with the possible exception of Minnesota. The same thing happened four years ago, when Republicans won all the close senate races but one (Colorado). Weird. What's the deal with Dems and close senate contests?" |
Chris Bystroff
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Bystroff
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2008
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 2:50 pm: |
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Voter turnout was "best in generations, maybe a century" according to Associated Press, but the voter turnout in Georgia went up by barely 0.5% despite a highly visible senate race, one that could be the tipping point for a fillibuster-free senate, and massive recruitment by democrats (over 500,000 new registered voters).
Some counties had projected a turnout of 70-80% and saw a 60% turnout instead.
Why the low numbers?
One hypothesis is that the true turnout was not really low. How could this be checked? |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 10078
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 3:46 pm: |
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Chris, I noticed this too. They were predicting 140 million voters. The election back in 2000 had about 104 million, as I recall. This morning I heard that Obama got 52 million and McCain got 48 million.
Now, I'd have to check all these numbers, confirm them, but if there are less than 120 million votes, we need to a'hunting go.
Edited, I meant 52 and 48, not 102 and 98. |
Karen Nelson
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Kankan
Post Number: 31
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, November 9, 2008 - 6:51 pm: |
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Would love to see some good investigation into Alaska, it looks like those folks have been rigging things so long they forgot you have to make it look at least plausible.
Good overview of many of the suspect numbers in Alaska by Shannyn Moore at Huff Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannyn-moore/alaska-on-ebay-election-n_b_142021.h tml
I think Alaska voting/counting would be a major challenge with even the most sincere folks working at it, but with an intrenched party... |
Laura L. Schall
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Lschall
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2008
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2008 - 6:08 pm: |
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Bev,
I am new this year to this site. Trying my best to sort out. _WHY PROP.8 WON?_ Yet the other conservative issue:_ WHY DID PROP.4 NOT ALSO WIN? (Prop 4 was the children and abortion issue.)
In most California Counties they either LOST together or WON together. As I would have predicted..... (and then there are a few areas where they split with very strange results).
I and my significant other are living right in the conservative heart of Riversides proper and our voting place was empty. We have two large areas in the same building voting together.I have never seen this and we started noticing some numbers did not seem to be adding up in our minds. We are both teachers elem.(me)and math science secondary(my other half).
So we started making a spread sheet of all races on the 100% tally total of all propositions throughout the whole state of California.
Prop.8 had overages of the 100% voting in some areas(?)and always came up very high compared to the other propositions. Overage's of 100% should never have happened!
But in those counties one of the other props.2, 9, 10 etc. would have a significant shortage not even close to the % of the other propositions which were consistent....
And when it came to Prop.8 in general there were always higher percentage points as well as 4. But not to the extent of prop.8.
Both of these propositions were in the (97%to 101.3%) While the other ones(Prop 11 in particular) tended to be in the (87%to 94% range).
My question for someone that might know more about this is...I would like to understand if there was possibly something to making this happen? I could understand shortages if the prop.s were on the back page of the ballot or such. But this was not the case in Riverside County. Only Prop.12 had underage for this reason.
But in all counties there was an uncanny and consistent thing happening. And the most extreme differences were found by us in larger more conservative or ethnic minority congregants. ( i.e.San Bernardina) There seem to be literally 10's of thousands of votes missing or differences showing up in large quantities just on certain propositions.
I will try to upload the charting from our other laptop later if you want to see the constant strangeness.
Do voters tend not to vote on all propositions? Do they leave blanks on their ballots? Is this so common that 10% of the total electorate leave a Prop blank? I would not think so....
And why was the voter turn for our presidential election this time so low approx. 52% Riverside County. I live next to a large Community College and UCR not counting the many other colleges in the area CSUSB ,CalBap.,Loma Linda, University of Redlands etc.
Thanks for any enlightenment or information you might have to offer us.
We voted this time on a paper ballet with counting at another location. Registration Center in Moreno Valley. Where it looked like large optical scan machines were set up and I could see the voter count taking place on the web. The night of the vote. I went looking for info of what was passing etc. There was some kind of cameras from the upper portion of the room swinging back and forth allowing our observation. The room seemed sort of dark for this work they were performing. The workers also were jamming the ballots in very quickly in haphazard stacks and then they were spitting them out very fast with jamming and multiple sheets spitting out as they attempted to gather them back up for plastic wrapping. It was a strange feeling like we were not watching this? Was this something legit and new or was I picking up something via a camera site that night that I should not have been able to watching?
Thanks, Laura Schall |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 10192
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2008 - 6:38 pm: |
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Laura, thanks for these insights. And please upload or email me any spreadsheets you have already done.
One tactic for shifting votes is to move them from one pocket to another, so the high votes in one coinciding with a shortage in the other intrigues me. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 10193
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2008 - 6:45 pm: |
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Just read Laura's description of the video observation allowed in Riverside central count. I've seen something similar, where they had a split screen for observers to watch what was going on in the counting room on video.
No way, no way at all you can properly monitor central count by looking at a video screen (central count is EXTREMELY difficult to monitor under the best of circumstances)
Your rather spooky description vividly points out the how central count and absentee count, especially, are hard to monitor. In our video on this -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZp3rA1XXjw -- we advise to view ballot movement as if each ballot were a hundred dollar bill.
In that context, the Riverside observation sounds horrific. |
Dale McClain
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2008 - 7:25 pm: |
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To Donovan:
Under the topic : “Races that might have been stolen”
Let me mention the race here in Sullivan County TN for state representative in 2nd house district 2.
The count was very close and may require a recount.
The reported winner had 12,858 the incumbents 12,532. We are waiting for the official results to be certified on the 14th. What makes it so odd is the fact that the incumbent is a black democrat and the winner is a white republican.
There were several days of early voting on paper ballots marked with Bar codes then fed into to the scanner .
Dale |
Karen Nelson
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Kankan
Post Number: 40
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 3:47 pm: |
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Laura-
Thanks for the great number crunching on this, I was suspicious of the Prop 8 results, especially due to polls and closeness of passage etc.. I would say that some precincts do sometimes legitimately get over 100 percent turnout if Cali allows same day registration, as my state MN does, so precincts in say, college areas, can get over 100 percent turnout, many precincts in MN got 95 percent turnout this year.
I would suggest making some sort of nice chart or graphs or tables that show the strangeness in the numbers from several angles and sending to some media, like independent weeklies, reporters covering the Prop 8 story for daily newspapers etc. Was there a typical percentage of Pres voters voted on the Prop 8 also? was there certain trends in conservative precincts that some conservative precincts were big outliers to? were turnout numbers inconsistent, with outliers, etc..The comparison on the Props seem like great indicator. Also pay attention to the various types of voting in various precincts and look for trends in that, I believe you can find the voting methods/machine types listed on this site.
Also, just a flyer here, but the Election Defense Alliance does some number crunching particularly on exit polls, they might be interested in helping and you might send your information to www.fivethirtyeight.com, as they love to number crunch and seem somewhat open to exploring fishy results, or have at least lightly jumped into questioning the Alaska numbers by comparing turnout to 2004 pres election etc.
I am a believer that the stats looked at from many angles can really spot rigging, not that it is definitive proof, but it gives you a place to concentrate further efforts, requests for information. |
Karen Nelson
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Kankan
Post Number: 41
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 4:04 pm: |
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One more thing on the Prop 8 thing, I am always suspicious when people start blaming things on Black people, as it seems an awful convenient target to influence white people. And now Prop 8 passing is supposedly Black people's fault because they voted for it 70 percent, and as much as people like to highlight a bastion of homophobia in Black community, I find plenty in white community also.
But the strange thing is exit polls in Arkansas show something different in regards to Iniative 1 in AR, which everybody understood was a means to stop gay single people, who cannot marry from adopting children:
>>>CNN poll data on Arkansas Initiative 1, which bans unmarried couples from fostering or adopting children, shows that whites, particularly white men, voted 58% for the ban, compared to 54% of African-Americans. Men and those aged 30 and over were more likely to support it; the greatest support was seen among whites over 65.>>>>>
Now I know this is not the exact same thing as Prop 8 but generall I say beware when people are blaming oppressed groups for being against other oppressed groups, remember how Hispanics were so against Black people they weren't going to vote for Obama...but hmmm...they voted for him a lot more than for Kerry. |
karen reineke
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Karen_r
Post Number: 218
Registered: 12-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 5:02 pm: |
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http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/c-status08/total_unprocessed_ballots08.pdf
according to this link from calis sos website there r still ovr 2 mill ballots to be counted
and laura is correct ,there should nevr be ovr 100 percent reported(but lauras a math teacher so she knows that)lol
reports off ovr 100 per cent r a flag of a program on machine or at the least an inaccurate impossible result
laura do u have info on how many ballots were cast?i would love to see the spread sheets u have done |
Joel Morine
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Erased
Post Number: 228
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 7:52 am: |
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Thanking KarenNelson for the point 2posts back, which I fully agree with, and is evidenced in current news spin here in central CA...
it also seems to me, re:
CNN poll data on Arkansas Initiative 1, which bans unmarried couples from fostering or adopting children, shows that whites, particularly white men, voted 58% for the ban, compared to 54% of African-Americans. Men and those aged 30 and over were more likely to support it; the greatest support was seen among whites over 65.
that there is a significant difference between Init1 in Arkansas and Prop8 in CA, that seems likely to be influential with many folk in the specific populations Karen cited in Arkansas poll data, and many others.
In poor communities in general, and historically in African-American community, single foster parenting -- both formal/official and informally -- is more common, important and valued, than it is in general population...not only -- but especially -- by men who can look back to a first-hand personal experience for whatever length of time.
Perhaps many who might have voted for Init1 if it had been gay-specific were strongly opposed to it in the general form in which it was presented. |
Karen Nelson
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Kankan
Post Number: 42
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 10:55 am: |
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Joel:
Yeah, I agree with your analysis, good pts, I had considered this also.
Besides the overwhelming demographic opposing Prop 8 was religious/church-goers, not surprisingly, more so than any income/race group, so it seem that's the group that should be focused on in discussion who passed Prop 8, if it did indeed pass.
Difficult thing is to coorelate religion to predicted results, to see if any fishiness in results, as not as simple as looking at registered dems and repubs for some races/props. |
Joel Morine
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Erased
Post Number: 230
Registered: 1-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 12:39 pm: |
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Along same theme of what makes this kind of logic-process slippery, as opposed to the number-crunching urged & usually very well-executed throughout this site, is a comment I swallowed re: the Prop4 <-> Prop8 result comparison above.
A friend who is as adamantly pro-choice and in favor of Prop8 as I am, also voted (as I did) for Prop4 -- having voted against all prior efforts in that direction. Her change of heart had to do w/ folk who use abortion as post-facto birth control, & we both felt the list of exceptions described in voting materials was this time comprehensive enough to limit the application of this proposition to where the value of one more conversation outweighed the potential negatives. Kids I've known who were raised by non-parent extended family members were also in my thoughts. I expect some other specific friends I have in mind voted the same combination.
Her brother effectively seeded my doubts that we'd made the right choice re: Prop4, especially re: issues of how effectively laws, protections, exceptions are de facto applied...
& CA's TrojanHorse propositions from the right always have me wary, perhaps not enough this time...
but in any case,
throwing those considerations into mix as part of what voters are thinking abt is still further cause to regard logic re: what may seem voter inconsistency is slippery.
BTW, can't express sufficient thanks to you & all the others for investing the number-crunching time & effort...& especially to John, Bev, others for supplying the tools...& likewise the many folk supplying law links, interpretation, & experiences.
Congratulations to all on what I personally believe to have been a very significant & important effect on extra-curricular voter participation...& hoping we can expand on that momentum with dare I say indictments, convictions, or at the very least cancelled or non-renewed contracts & etcs it wld be especially redundant to list here. |
Dale McClain
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 2:34 pm: |
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To Bev Harris:
We are need of a little help to get a recount here in Sullivan County TN. Are there any guidelines
For requesting a recount. As it stands now the difference in 25,390 votes is 253 or 326.
Dale McClain
-------------------------------
Note To Nathan Vaughn:
Nathan;
Please try to go for a recount if possible.
I have tried to use a new PACER account
To file a complaint. I gave them my bank account number and all but I did not get into their program.
I have requested forms to be mailed to my house.
I know how busy you must be and I feel in this electronic age the cards are stacked against us.
With Great Respect,
Dale McClain |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 10203
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 3:30 pm: |
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What would anyone recount? Sullivan County TN uses paperless DREs.
That said, recounts can occasionally uncover information that doesn't add up, and can expose other failures of the existing, but secret and hidden, system. |
christine c reid
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 1135
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 9:03 pm: |
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In a county that uses DREs, Bev, is there ever (in your experience) any value in going over the original precinct level data and recalculating the vote totals -- or doesn't precinct level data tend to exist? What about looking at voter lists and comparing them to ballot totals?
If voters voted who could be shown to be dead, for example, or were interviewed and said they were out of town and didn't vote, that would of course be of interst. To do that work, one would have to have some strong belief that issues existed with the list of actual voters. |
christine c reid
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 1136
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 9:11 pm: |
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REgarding Prop 8 and the over 100% turnout figures: can anyone clarify 100% of what?
In other words, if coming into election day there are 100 voters on a list, and on election day 10 provisionals whose info is not on the list come to vote, and 90 of the 100 listed people come to vote, what is the percentage turnout reported? (The calc may vary from state to state as to methodology). If you count number of voters from all sources against only the pollbook list, you get a 100% turnout. If you compare turnout to the pollbook list plus names that are not on the list (SUM), then the turnout is less. If turnout is a percentage of known to be eligible voters, then the second method could not be used.
I'm asking so as to try to come up with a possible explanation as to the figures for votes cast vs. registration in the Prop 8 referendum. |
Dale McClain
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 11:13 pm: |
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To Bev Harris:
In Sullivan County TN Today the results will be certified for a 50/50 election for Tennessee State representative. I feel sad because I do not have the technical ability to question the count that the System will use to choose the winner.
Enclosed please find the last few lines from the Everest report which is one of my sources that shapes my attitude.
Dale McClain….With an attitude.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Our review concludes that the vendor systems lack basic technical protections necessary to guarantee a trustworthy election. Thus, we strongly believe that the integrity of the election relies almost entirely on the physical procedures used to carry out the election. We further conclude that some weaknesses are of a depth and magnitude that formulating reliable and workable procedural safeguards will be a very difficult task.
The review teams at Pennsylvania State University: Kevin Butler, William Enck, Harri Hursti, Steve McLaughlin and Patrick Traynor at the Pennsylvania State University. At the University of Pennsylvania: Adam Aviv, Pavol Èernư, Sandy Clark, Eric Cronin, Gaurav Shah, and Micah Sherr. At WebWise Security, Inc: Richard Kemmerer, Davide Balzarotti, Greg Banks, Marco Cova, Viktoria Felmetsger, William Robertson, and Fredrik Valeur. Elections legal and procedural consultants: Joseph Lorenzo Hall and Laura Quilter.
Patrick McDaniel, Principal Investigator and Team Leader–Pennsylvania State University
Matt Blaze, Team Leader–University of Pennsylvania
Giovanni Vigna, Team Leader–WebWise Security, Inc. |
Dale McClain
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2008 - 4:52 am: |
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To Bev Harris:
I should have posted the way to get the full Everest Report PDF.
Dale
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/upload/everest/14-AcademicFinalEVERESTReport.pdf |
Dale McClain
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 1:46 am: |
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To Donovan.
Sullivan County Bar Codes have me bugged.
Are you still watching the outcome in Tennessee?
I have interest in the State Representative outcome. Nathan Vaughn the incumbent Democrat lost to Tony Shipley Republican. 2nd house district 2.
It was an extremely narrow margin where all Gold Standards should have been in place to protect the count.
WRONG! For Tennessee this was a much more important race than the presidential race.
No paper trail exists and no recount is possible.
Here I sit all broken hearted. Still contemplating a frontal attack on the Sullivan County Election Commission. There was a bar code on my early voting ballot . I can not read bar codes. The training video provided on line by the election commission
Showed versions of the ballot in both English and Spanish . The bar code was down played because we voters are not expected to read a bar code.
(November 15, 2008, 4:05 AM) I will implant a time
Stamp for you . I do not know if there was a time stamp on my ballot.
I want you to know that after all the warfare that has gone on to protect our rights to a fair and secret ballot-- I don’t plan to lay down and play dead.
Yes, Warfare.! What else would you call the work Bev Harris did in Florida in the face of the establishment?
What about the Men who have died on the battle field to protect our freedom and the right to vote.
It sickens me to think that a scanner can do all the counting and deploy all the votes and then remain
Aloof as judge , jury, and executioner. A scanner
With no identification, no social security number.
No dog tags, No home address. But it knows your name, social security number , where you live. Who you vote for, Your party affiliation, your age, your language and of coarse the color of your skin!
Don’t get me started ! This web site has always been non partisan and my only ax to grind is the electronic voting machine which is being forced down our throats. It was not fair in 2000 , 2004, 2006 and it is not fair in 2008. It will be worse in 2010! |
christine c reid
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 1152
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 5:45 am: |
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Dale said, "No paper trail exists and no recount is possible." I believe you are quoting Bev, who erroneously believed that TN was completely on touchscreens or DREs and did not realize that she herself had posted the fact that Sullivan County is now part of a pilot program with optical scanners and paper ballots for early voting. You said you voted on a paper ballot.
The early voting ballots ARE a paper trail. Federal law requires they be stored for 22 months after a federal election. That means you have at least a partial paper trail.
Second, you are JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS. The bar code cannot store all that information that you imagine it cane just because it is a bar code. That is not how it would work. Think about it. The ballot bar code is only a number. Do you have a thought-out method that ould be used to connect the ballot number to your information ? To link to your info, somebody must know the order in which people voted. If there's no way that the order in which people voted can be linked to their names, then you DO NOT have a problem as yet. You only have the potential for a problem.
PLEASE. The bar code description I sent you tells what the bar code is used for. In order to conclude what you conclude, you need to provide a METHOD for such code to connect your information to the code. YOU DO NOT HAVE SUCH A METHOD established as yet.
Most of the time the people operating these machines don't have a clue about the technical aspects of them. It is possible that if you helped inform people, they would be interested in helping you find the answers. Cooperation and informing people and asking them to help you look into and understand the system you are testing in your county is the only step that makes any sense here.
Tennessee is moving away from paperless voting and into voting with paper ballots. That will mean an improvement in 2010 (in terms of recounts). It may not be perfect, but will be going in the right direction.
There is a big difference between gathering facts and flying off the handle when you don't have the facts clear. Please keep gathering the facts.
If what concerns you is the close race, the bar code does not hold the key to exploring the close race -- it is an entirely different issue. |
Dale McClain
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 9:21 am: |
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Christine says “There is a big difference between gathering facts and flying off the handle when you don't have the facts clear. Please keep gathering the facts.”
“If what concerns you is the close race, the bar code does not hold the key to exploring the close race -- it is an entirely different issue.”
This is great advise to any one especially me. But Christine I have been gathering facts for 8 years!
OK, OK, let me back up a little.
I found the :
Now, Dale, here is a picture of a ballot from Washington state with unique bar code identifiers on them, submitted to BBV by two voters there:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/Grapeview_Mason_Co__WA_2008_Ballot _1-78497.pdf
The pictures looks similar to what I saw on the Paper Ballot here in early voting in Sullivan county.
First let me try to unscramble my priorities., called :
A-Gather Facts, B- explore close races at Federal level, C- explore close Races at State and County level, D- fly off the handle, E- Save My friend Nathan, F-Save my Friend Shipley, G- Provide and prove a workable method to steal an election. H- Dig for laws that govern these various elections.
In the interest of time (November 15, 2008, 11:57 AM) I think I want to go to letter H. Then
I’ll cut my friend Nathan loose and go to letter G
to experiment with twisting wires together to Hot wire an election.
I believe I’d better stick to Christine’s advice :
A- Gather more facts .. Thank you Christine. |
christine c reid
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 1153
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 11:58 am: |
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Dale, I can help you find the applicable laws. Anytime you find the law, the next question is, "how much slippage is t here between what the law says and what people actually do?" but it is a good starting point.
Was the close race in question a race for state legislature or for Congress? If state legislature, then only a few of the federal laws would be applicable -- period of ballot retention, for example, since the state race is on the same ballot as the federal races.
The links to many federal election laws are on the right hand side of this page: http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/elections
I have not even begun to peruse this material, but at least it's a good bookmark to keep.
While searching for links to the state election laws, I found two articles of interest at the Moritz Law School election law site. Here they are. They relate to one of two topics -- close elections.
Here, it is mentioned that in Sullivan County, some incorrect ballots for the state rep race where sent to people, and some people voted before finding out they had the wrong ballot.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jYqo0FAsS35YJJIhXeXcXN0mKl3AD94121D80
This article might prove useful in suggesting actions that could be monitored in close races:
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/comments/articles.php?ID=3585
The article says provisional ballots, problematic absentee ballots, late arriving overseas absentee ballots, and possibly uncounted machine cast ballots are worth examining.
If federal, then whenever the federal law is stronger than the state law, it is my understanding that for that federal race, the federal law would apply. For example, in my state local election ballots have to be held 6 months. Federal 22 months. But if the local race is on the same ballot as a federal race, then the ballots have to be kept for the 22 months. Our registrar of voters were elected and were on the federal ballots, so that race is on ballots that will be kept 22 months, even though the race itself normally would only have to be held 6 months.
Next, the Tennessee STATE 1) statutes and 2) any regulations created by your state election body (in our state, it's the secretary of state - not sure yet who it is in Tennessee)
Here is the link to the elections section of the state statutes. Sometimes other areas of the statutes apply to elections, and sometimes there are agency regulations that apply to elections, in addition to state laws.
So, reading in the election law, it appears you are quite correct and there is an APPARENT means to use the unique bar code number on your ballot (called the ballot number) and use that number to compare your vote to the vote you cast. Here is that section of law:
2) One (1) early voting ballot or one (1) primary early voting ballot or both.
In a computerized county, the administrator may record the ballot number on the computer-generated duplicate registration record or the voter's application to vote.
(b) The voter shall show the unmarked ballot to the early voting official, mark the ballot in secret at the place provided in the commission office, either fold the ballot or place it in a secrecy sleeve provided by the election commission in order to preserve the secrecy of the ballot, and return to the early voting official.
(c) (1) The early voting official shall direct the voter to the correct general election early voting ballot box and/or party primary early voting ballot box according to the election and precinct in which the voter voted. The voter shall deposit the ballot in the appropriate ballot box or boxes.
(2) Except in cases in which computerized duplicate registration records are used, the attesting official shall, in the presence of the voter, note on the voter's duplicate permanent registration record that the voter has voted early in the election and in every case, including those counties in which computerized duplicate registration records are used, record the voter's name on the early voting poll book for each election in which the voter voted.
(3) In those counties in which computerized duplicate registration records are used, the attesting official shall update the voter's computerized voter history by making the appropriate data entry.
(d) A county election commission may use any voting machine authorized for use under chapter 9 of this title for early voting.
(e) The county election commission must provide a place where the voter may mark the ballot in complete secrecy and privacy.
OK, progress. Now, what else should be located: Also helpful would be to locate a user guide for the Hart Intercivic e-scan. The users guide will generally explain how the election officials can run various types of reports on the election. What we would want to discover is whether there exists a report that lets you print out the ballot number and the associated vote. Let's hope there is no such thing.
The computer does record ballot numbers for the stated purpose of identifying duplicate ballot counting. The question is, what are the means by which thi data could be extracted from the computer? It might involve e.g. de-encryption of enrypted data. Or, it could be straightforward. Let's see what else we can learn. Anyone who has seen reports printed out from this voting machine (Mr. Oetting?), please, your input would be quite useful.
Finally, Dale, something that would impact any case brought about this law allowing the recording of the ballot number on the duplicate registration card MIGHT conflict with the Tennessee constitution if it requires a secret ballot, so we should try to track down that info, too.} UPDATE: I found a link to the TN Constitution and I do not see an EXPLICIT guarantee of a secret ballot:
http://www.tncrimlaw.com/law/constit/I.html#5
Dale, before you charge down to the courthouse, please realize that there are a number of election rights and civil rights group who might find this law troubling, and might help citizens like you to explore the possibility of having the law declared unconstitutional or illegal. Just sayin'.
On we go, learning about the election system in Tennessee. I wonder if you could ask to see the duplicate registraton card for your voting record, if it is something they keep on file. The question would be, are your ballot numbers being recorded? Remember: for this to be a current problem, there must be a way to link BALLOT NUMBER to VOTES CAST. |
christine c reid
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 1154
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 12:11 pm: |
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UPDATE: Bingo.
I have not yet found a copy on line of the user's guide, Dale.
you may know that some states have conducted security reviews of many of the voting machines in use in the United States today. I was able to quickly search in a review of Hart Intercivic machines done by the State of California and found the following statement:
Whereas, the Hart Source Code Review Team found that the Hart voting system allows raw
ballot records and other information to be used to reconstruct how each voter voted, potentially
compromising the secrecy of the ballot;
Here is the link to the document making this statement, which I have not read completely through:
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/ttbr/hart.pdf
The quote is about halfway down the page on page 2 of this document, Dale.
UPDATE: upthread a bit ago I quoted from an article in a Washington state publication, wherein a group of citizens attempted to reassure "confused voters" that the unique barcode had no other purpose than an above-board purpose.
IF anyone knows these citizens, can you please point out the California study? The takehome message is: when you don't know a situation is dangerous, research it before you sign your name to a reassurance that it is not. TEN CITIZENS including the county elections supervisor signed their names to reassurances about a piece of equipment that is RISKY , and reassured their fellow citizens that there was "no problem". The fact that they themselves are unaware of the issue does not mean the potential to misuse the equipment in their county does not exist. |
Dale McClain
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 17
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 2:11 pm: |
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Christina -- State Legislature Race in question. However I need to: B- explore close races at Federal level, C- explore close Races at State and County level. Wait a minute I’m still on paragraph 1 and 2 of your first post and I see a BINGO coming up.
If I am overwhelmed --- I asked for it!
The links to many federal election laws are on the right hand side of this page: http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/elections
Let me give this a think.
Dale |
christine c reid
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 1156
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 2:36 pm: |
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OK, basically what all that typing said above, Dale, is that YES, the TN existing legislation and the technical data from California about your op scan early voting machine suggest the potential for problems. It suggests that your state/county may be able to correlate voter name/data with how the voter voted:.
In other words, no proof they are doing it now, but evidence that several factors come together and put much in place that is a perfect storm that could allow the official tracking of a voter's choices on his or her ballot in early voting by the present system and laws.
Coming back onto the main topic for this thread, could you please say again your interests/questions in close federal level races? And your interest/questions about close races at state/county level?
That will help us focus on where to look for answers. Thanks. |
Dale McClain
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 18
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 3:22 pm: |
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Secrete ballot is in Jeopardy by use of a bar code should be my theme at this time and yes I agree someone should change this thread from Races that may have been stolen.
Dale |
christine c reid
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ctwatcher
Post Number: 1157
Registered: 12-2007
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 5:13 pm: |
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OK, Dale, let's leave a few breadcrumbs here so people can follow us back over there, and if you have any thoughts on the close races, keep putting them here.
Here is the link (aka breadcrumbs in the forest a la Hansel and Gretel)
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/170/46653.html?1226795623 |
Joshua Landess
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jlsoaz
Post Number: 23
Registered: 7-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 8:02 am: |
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In response to Laura L. Schall:
Until I read your comments, I had not really questioned the Marriage Rights Proposition outcomes. I was surprised by the outcome of prop 102 here in Arizona, but hadn't really thought to question it, in part because the outcome of the Presidential race seemed about in-line with my expectations. My county of Santa Cruz went 65% for Obama here in McCain's home state, but overall the state went for McCain and that seemed about right.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25362593/race/president
My county voted narrowly for Prop 102, the ban on Gay Marriage, 52.07% to 47.93%.
http://www.co.santa-cruz.az.us/elections/11-04-2008/results11042008.htm
In the end, I can see that it's possible that this particular election was not stolen, since a heavily Democrat county voting for Obama does not mean the county (pretty heavily Catholic for example) would shy away from approving 102. But, I and others will watch with interest the results (good, bad, indifferent) of any investigations into checking California's anti-gay-marriage measure. Your posts are a reminder that we should not lose sight of insisting that all ballot measures should be accurately summed up, no exceptions, anywhere, ever. |
Marcia A Morgan
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Msmarcie
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2008 - 11:29 pm: |
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http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/show.cgi?tpc=73&post=51385#POST51385http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/show.cgi?tpc=73&post=51384#POST51384
Hi Bev,
I apologize this file took so long to finish. I ran into a small problem of formatting. when trying to save the spreadsheet as an MS Excel 2003 xlm document it scrambled all my colorful line graphs and turned them into a rubber band ball - 
I chose to Upload this file in two formats. The first is MS Excel 2000 xls. If you are one of the few who abhor the strangling monopoly of Microsoft software on the market, then you can try an open source code office suite provided free by Sun microsystems. At http://www.openoffice.org you can download the software and use this file I protected the two sheets and the document from my clutzyness using the same password - 'Vote' I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Ms.Marcie} |
Joshua Landess
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jlsoaz
Post Number: 24
Registered: 7-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 6:20 am: |
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Hello Marcia:
In your larger chart on sheet 2, comparing prop 6,7,10,12 totals (or %?) as a % of presidential votes, I suggest adding in prop 8, otherwise we seem to be left reading to make a mental comparison. It's possible you should add in others too, so people can't say you were "picking and choosing" but I suggest to start that adding in prop 8 would bring something to it. |
Joshua Landess
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jlsoaz
Post Number: 25
Registered: 7-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 6:33 am: |
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To add a couple of comments on the hypothesis that the vote on prop 8 in California might not have been taken or counted in a legit way:
First, I would not be entirely surprised if some voters felt so strongly about prop 8 that it was their number one issue (above the Presidential race). I believe you addressed this somewhat by comparing the prop 8 totals to high totals for some other seemingly less heartfelt issues. It is not entirely implausible to me that your findings are consistent with how people actually voted. It is possible that the results we are seeing are legit. After looking at your research, I am in some doubt on this.
I am keeping in mind that there is no law (that I'm aware) that says we have to vote in each proposition or race, and not casting a vote is, in a sense, the casting of an opinion (an abstention, even if there is no box to mark).
I think we need some additional or different way to gage if the votes might not have been legit on prop 8. Maybe take your research and compare them to voting methods in the different counties? Are there some counties thought to be using less corruptible methods than others?
If for some reason we were to discover that the votes did look illegitimate enough such that interested parties wanted to sue for a recount, how much would such a recount cost and who would pay for it?
I am keeping in mind that BBV is a non-partisan organization. So, our interest here I think should be to identify votes that look incorrectly taken or counted, regardless of the outcome. You may have identified a vote in this case that was not legitimately counted or taken, but when I think about how strongly some may have felt who voted for the measure, then I don't know. I will be very interested to see the reactions of Bev and others who can see your sheet and identify if it looks like it indicates a real problem with voting totals. |
Marcia A Morgan
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Msmarcie
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2008
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 5:19 pm: |
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http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/show.cgi?tpc=73&post=51553#POST51553
Hello Joshua,
Thank you for those suggestions. I need to correct some of your assumptions. I created the spreadsheet to allay my friends suspicions about the outcome of the Ballot measures. When I set the data and formulas, I had no opinion about the outcomes. Also, my concern is not just Prop 8. My examination of the data, points to some kind of algorithm applied to all ballot measures. What ever was done, if it was done, was adaptive. That is the only way so many counties have nearly identical graphs of total votes on each measure. Those graphs also match the state total graph.
To use Prop 8 as a secondary standard to evaluate the vote would bias the results. Any algorithm applied to Prop 8's votes, if there was one, would skew all the data. I needed an independent, reliable variable that would correlate counties with extremely different demographics.
The three combined graphs (1A,3,5,9), (2,4,8,11), & (6,7,10,12) were provided to observe how each group of Ballot measures compared to each other in their group and to the other groups. I found, when there was a major deviation in one group, the other group(s) had a similar deviation.
BTW, the use of Ballot Measures to sway results in other campaigns was an effective strategy in previous elections. Why not use a presidential campaign to sway the votes on Ballot measures. The problem was - it backfired.
My point is the voter percentages in California's Ballot Measures show remarkable coincidence, at times, and even more unusual differences. This sort of problem requires an independent, complete examination of the vote count. Unfortunately, that won't happen because the illusion of fairness/legitimacy is much more important than actual legitimacy.
Finally, I am adding four more sheets - at least - to create graphs for the Yes and No totals and to recreate the entire spreadsheet for the final vote count. Some people have already noticed unusual changes in final results due to the mail-in and provisional ballot count.
Sincerely,
Ms.Marcie |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 5391
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, November 17, 2008 - 6:01 pm: |
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This is amazing stuff, Marcia. I look forward to the graphs. It will be great if they can be posted directly, without having to open up a link. |
Joshua Landess
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jlsoaz
Post Number: 26
Registered: 7-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 3:34 pm: |
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Hi Marcia:
Thanks for helping me see some things. I will admit that I'm still not entirely clear, but if time permits, I'll try to take a look at it again.
jl |
Marcia A Morgan
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Msmarcie
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 6:59 pm: |
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Hi Cathrine and Joshua,
Thank you for your comments. I have been trying to get a handle on the all data/graphs I've created. I've been experimenting with different types. Bar graphs didn't help me but I saw some interesting results in the pie charts of the number of yes/no votes per county. The differences in magnitude due to population was striking. I'm still not 100% convinced something was done but it sure seems like it.
BTW, there are 58 counties in California and there were 12 propositions on the ballot. I have created about 100 graphs. I'm not sure which ones I should insert but I will think about it and reply.
Sincerely,
Marcia |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 5410
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 7:46 pm: |
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Hi Marcia,
Perhaps you could post a few graphs that demonstrate "typical" results, and then graphs of the results that seem different and surprising to you. You could point out how the surprising ones are different from the others. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 5411
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2008 - 7:54 pm: |
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Also, you might want to consider a scatter plot graph of some kind. (E.g. "yes" votes v.s. total number of votes recorded for a certain proposition. Or, "yes" votes for a certain proposition plotted against number of votes for a proposition that you'd expect to have a similar result. Or, "yes" votes plotted against a the numbers of a known segment of the electorate.)
Some results might emerge as "outliers".
It would be great if you could find a statistician or someone else with the skills to help you consider how to display the data that you have.
Deciding what data seems "out of place"--and why--is key to determining how to present it visually. |
Dale McClain
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 237
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, June 6, 2010 - 6:14 pm: |
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Hi Catherine , here is a current national mock election ballot.
HAVA has a chapter on grants for education.
SEC. 295. <<note:>> NATIONAL STUDENT AND PARENT MOCK ELECTION.
This is for Tennessee.:
My point is I feel students are not learning anything of value about elections.
My first hand knowledge is that most are not at all interested in such a dull
subject and they are learning from their parents that it is useless to vote.
My attempts to stop bar codes on the ballots in TN. Got nowhere. Largely because no
attorneys would take on big government and had no training to do so.
Few cases can be sited that can help judicate a voting machine related law suit.
Now as we go into the 2012 elections which will be the first fully electronically implemented election--
no one seems the least bit frightened.
Dale |
Dale McClain
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 238
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, June 6, 2010 - 6:16 pm: |
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Hi Catherine , here is a current national mock election ballot.
HAVA has a chapter on grants for education.
SEC. 295. <<note:>> NATIONAL STUDENT AND PARENT MOCK ELECTION.
This is for Tennessee.:
My point is I feel students are not learning anything of value about elections.
My first hand knowledge is that most are not at all interested in such a dull
subject and they are learning from their parents that it is useless to vote.
My attempts to stop bar codes on the ballots in TN. Got nowhere. Largely because no
attorneys would take on big government and had no training to do so.
Few cases can be sited that can help judicate a voting machine related law suit.
Now as we go into the 2012 elections which will be the first fully electronically implemented election--
no one seems the least bit frightened.
Dale |
V. Kurt Bellman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Formerelecdir
Post Number: 3558
Registered: 4-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, June 7, 2010 - 7:20 am: |
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"Now as we go into the 2012 elections which will be the first fully electronically implemented election--
no one seems the least bit frightened."
Really? Seriously? How wasn't 2008 "fully electronically implemented"?
==========================================
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
"Public sentiment is everything. With it, nothing can fail. Without it, nothing can succeed". --Abraham Lincoln
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Dale McClain
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dale
Post Number: 240
Registered: 10-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, June 7, 2010 - 11:21 am: |
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Tennessee 2008 election in Sullivan County
used a pilot program.
Dale |
V. Kurt Bellman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Formerelecdir
Post Number: 3561
Registered: 4-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, June 7, 2010 - 11:31 am: |
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Dale,
ALL elections for federal office had to be as electronic as they're going to be by 2006. There will be no further net increase, nor decrease, in the electronic nature of elections in 2012. All that was going to happen happened by 2006. That doesn't mean jurisdictions won't change something. It only means they were all HAVA compliant by 2006/8 - New York being the last to comply, and they were late according to HAVA and had to be granted a special waiver in an omnibus appropriations bill so that they wouldn't face federal court legal sanctions.
==========================================
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
"Public sentiment is everything. With it, nothing can fail. Without it, nothing can succeed". --Abraham Lincoln
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Phillip Caine
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Phillip_caine
Post Number: 76
Registered: 3-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 8:56 am: |
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I find it amazing certain folks get so much information from HAVA, I emailed them twice and they never addressed not one thing I said.
Instead they send back a stamped templates full of their propaganda and talking points while changing the topic, ignoring everything I said.
That's TYRANNY, but HAVA will call it plausible deniability, as they couldn't possibly address everyone who writes them because they are too busy making misguided laws to forever in the future have a broken chain of custody electronically. |
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Vote Count Analysis of the California Propositions(EXECEL2K/xlsformat)
Vote Count Analysis of the California Propositions(Calc 3.0 ods format)
