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admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 959
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 5 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 2:26 pm: | 
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Top secret documents obtained by Black Box Voting -- As state after state has passed cookie-cutter mail-in voting legislation, here's what's been flying under the radar: Diebold's new Vote Remote Suite.
As we add more to this, you'll see that components of VoteRemote are already in use, as shown by accounting entries with completed billings for VoteRemote services.
Most of the VoteRemote technology has been around for 40 years (basic mail processing automation, like envelope stuffing and bar coding). What is new for elections is Diebold's automation of signature comparison.
Note that the VoteRemote suite interacts with the Voter Registration database, which happens to have party affiliation, and that you can selectively set the tolerance for signature comparison to reject lots, a few, or hardly any voters.
More on Vote Remote in future reports. Here is an introduction to the technology:
http://www.bbvdocs.org/diebold/voteremote.pdf
A little mystery: Who certified THIS? (And when?)
Note: If you experience problems loading these documents, first try clicking them again, because we adjusted the links. If that doesn't work, go here: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html and do a free update on your Adobe Acrobat reader. |
johngideon
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: johngideon
Post Number: 84
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 2:53 pm: |
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Answer to the mystery: There is no qualification required. Remember qualification is federal; certification is state.
The federal voting systems standards only refer to voting systems. The VoteRemote does not count, tally, or report votes and it does nothing to define the ballots. It is not a voting system so it does not require federal qualification. See the 2002 Voting Systems Standards Volume 1, Pg 1-4
Information Manager, VotersUnite.org
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admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 961
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |
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Bingo. You win the cookie.
We are charging ahead willy-nilly with idiotic ideas before anyone even considers the attack vectors, much less regulations or procedures to mitigate them.
The fact that they don't have to certify it is a problem! |
johngideon
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: johngideon
Post Number: 86
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 6:08 pm: |
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It should also be noted that VoteHere has a program like Diebold's for vote-by-mail.
Information Manager, VotersUnite.org
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admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 963
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 6:17 pm: |
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So does Electus (Saber Consulting). However, Diebold's differs from these two programs.
The typical method is to place the signatures side by side on a computer screen for human verification. What Diebold does is provide an integrated system -- were it not for security issues, sort of a wonderful system.
Picture this:
DIMS Voter Registration
GEMS Election Management System
Diebold Vote Remote (for absentee)
This system has a variable-setting automated signature comparison with an export feature to go back into the voter registration system. What is being exported? They don't say.
Diebold high speed central count op-scan (for absentee)
Which feeds back into GEMS
Add to that, for polling place voting, the Diebold electronic pollbook, the Diebold votercard encoder, the Diebold data transfer systems, the Diebold memory cards.
Then add at least nine customized drivers in the Windows CE portion of the touch-screen, an interpreter in the precinct-based optical scan system which some documents indicate can pass variable data, and then for good measure put in a dollop of wireless.
And for that final, finishing touch: The new Diebold Online Project Manager, which puts all your county data, files, etc onto a Diebold server.
Attack city. |
ubetchaiam
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ubetchaiam
Post Number: 71
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 7:14 pm: |
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John,thanks for answering the question I had when I got the alert. New question: what is 'DIMS Voter Registration'? |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 967
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 7:29 pm: |
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DIMS Voter Registration is the Diebold voter registration program, but like Global Election Systems, it was an acquisition. It is a company originally from Granite Bay, California, I think.
DIMS had many issues in Nov. 2004 -- in Cuyahoga County, it turned out that purging of the database was done manually and somewhat arbitrarily. The DIMS program is "unforgiving" explained one of the officials. I'm not sure what that means, but I do know that people who had moved away 20 years ago were still on the rolls, and people who had just voted a few months ago were purged.
Some very good work on DIMS was done by Dr. Victoria Lovegren, of http://www.ohiovigilance.org (.com?) -- I'm pretty sure she has the report there.
-- Bev |
ubetchaiam
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ubetchaiam
Post Number: 72
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 7:32 pm: |
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Also, can someone confirm or show me where I misunderstand the Calif. Election Code regarding Absentee ballots and signature verification? In reading through it, it seems contradictory and also seems to basically say just what to do with no specification of 'how to do'.
15101.
(a) Any jurisdiction in which absentee ballots are cast may begin to process absentee ballot return envelopes beginning 29 days before the election. Processing absentee ballot return envelopes may (??????????)include verifying the voter's signature on the absentee ballot return envelope and updating voter history records.
(b) Any jurisdiction having the necessary computer capability may start to process absentee ballots on the seventh day prior to the election. Processing absentee ballots includes opening absentee ballot return envelopes, removing ballots, duplicating any damaged ballots, and preparing the ballots to be machine read, or machine reading them, but under no circumstances may a vote count be accessed or released until 8 p.m. on the day of the election.
15104. (a) The processing of absentee ballot return envelopes, and the processing and counting of absentee ballots shall be open to the public, both prior to and after the election.
(d) Absentee voter observers shall be allowed sufficiently close access to enable them to observe and challenge whether those individuals handling absentee ballots are following established procedures, including all of the following:
(1) Verifying signatures and addresses by comparing them to voter registration information.
15109. Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, the counting and canvassing of absentee ballots shall be conducted in the same manner and under the same regulations as used for ballots cast in a precinct polling place. |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 968
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 7:44 pm: |
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Yes, the verification part does sound contradictory. Note also that while they can "process" ballots -- ie. run them through the scanner, they cannot count the ballots. In other words, they are not allowed to run certain kinds of reports. This came into issue when a San Luis Obispo vote file showed up on the Internet 5 hours before the polls closed, and they said it was absentee ballots and they didn't know how it got there.
(http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-13.pdf)
One thing very unclear in Washington, and you might want to check it in California given this lovely new technology, which allows something -- who knows what -- to be exported from the envelope scanning process into the voter registration database -- here, the law is a little murky on whether the local jurisdictions have to keep the paper voter registration if they send electronic signature files to the secretary of state.
I'm sure John or Linda Franz will know more about that than I, however.
Bev |
johngideon
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: johngideon
Post Number: 87
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 8:44 pm: |
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http://ohiovigilance.org/Counties/Cuyahoga/Analysis/CuyProblemDIMS.htm
The Lovegren report is here.
Information Manager, VotersUnite.org
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kathleen_wynne
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: kathleen_wynne
Post Number: 102
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 8:49 pm: |
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Thanks, John.
Dr. Lovegren is a personal friend, I've known for 30 years. She would be pleased to know that her report is being acknowledged by you!
Kathleen |
ubetchaiam
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ubetchaiam
Post Number: 73
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 9:18 pm: |
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Thanks Bev. The more I read the CA Election Code, the more I see that it has been either neglected or is just poorly written.
And the link to the San Luis Obispo will be helpful and well as John's reference. |
jimz
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: jimz
Post Number: 98
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 10:00 pm: |
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ubetchaiam wrote:
...
(d) Absentee voter observers shall be allowed sufficiently close access to enable them to observe and challenge whether those individuals handling absentee ballots are following established procedures, including all of the following:
(1) Verifying signatures and addresses by comparing them to voter registration information.
It seems to me that the D-bold automatic signature verification software would not be able to be used in CA, especially if there are any observers watching the process. They would need to be able see both signatures: the envelope and the file copy versions.
Peace!
JimZ
The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.
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admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 971
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 7:07 am: |
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Good catch. We have found billings for Vote Remote in California.
I'm sure I saw Los Angeles County in the billings.
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catherine_a
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: catherine_a
Post Number: 460
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 8:41 am: |
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John,
Thanks for that link to the Lovegren report. Very interesting reading.
It seems amazing that a database could be constructed so poorly that to extract data from just 2 fields would be so impossibly difficult.
It seems to me that entries/changes to voter registration databases should be logged as being done by a certain staff member, at a certain date and time. This is probably done in banks, isn't it? What's it like in voter registration offices--who can access the system, does anyone keep track at all? Is there any way to trace back who did what to the electronic data? The banking industry must have huge experience with this, and since Diebold does ATMs one can assume they'd be very familiar with how to create a trail. At least with voter registration, since it's not "secret", it should be possible to make it all traceable.
Also, it seems strange that in this day and age a database would not give an error message if a required field wasn't completed (e.g., date of birth). Why on earth would it put in a default value? That possibility shouldn't exist. I'd think a good database would strive to eliminate any possible user error.
Also, why does anyone have to register party affiliation (or none) when they register to vote? This should be between the voter and the respective party. If there's a primary election, then the parties would have to have some way to define who their eligible members are (e.g., paid-up members). It's a big joke the way the primaries are done, with anyone being able to vote in one primary regardless of whether or not they're a member of that party, or regardless of their bona fides. I think party structures in the USA must be so big & bloated that they just want maximum names, and don't care about more than that.
In any case, party registration should never be included on any voter registration records.
(Message edited by catherine_a on July 26, 2005) |
ubetchaiam
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ubetchaiam
Post Number: 74
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 9:54 am: |
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Would you review -or allow me to- the 'billings' so that ALL CA billings could be definitively ascertained? Thanks.
We've been considering how to handle this. I think it might be good to do public records requests first, to see if the billings match the public records.
This will require a little more time. We are assembling the billing documents, and there are many copies. Some are spreadsheets, some are projections on spreadsheets. Some of the documents were in very poor condition when we received them, and had to be dried out.
Some are duplicates, but we have to be very careful, we're finding, because some are not quite exact matches -- as you can see with the trial balance sheets in the money trail archive.
It would be helpful, as kind of a team effort, if some of you in California can do public records requests for all billings that relate to Vote Remote.
If you need help with this, please e-mail me privately. I think it will prove very interesting to compare the documents retrieved from Diebold with the public records on Vote Remote billings.
-- Bev |
ne0shell
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ne0shell
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 3:19 pm: |
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There are many "high tech" ways to handle this, encrypted PGP type signatures etc to provide verification of each voters identity. Keeping it low tech seems to help in the fraud. |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 972
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 3:39 pm: |
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Hi, Ne0shell -- can you explain more about how the PGP would be applied to signature capture and recognition?
As everyone knows, I am not a computer expert. But logic tells me that the integrity of the capture software that converts the signature to digital form is very important. What they are using is TIFF files. They are using customized software to capture and compare them.
If you can give me a schematic of how the PGP would be applied, that would be appreciated!
And welcome to Black Box Voting!
(P.S. to ubetchaim, please look inside your post for a reply)
Bev Harris |
jimmarch
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: jimmarch
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 6:51 am: |
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San Diego uses VoteRemote.
I had a chance to ask them about it before that incident involving handcuffs and such. They claim they're only using it to do electronic addressing/printing of envelopes...seems quite odd when it's clear it can do so much more...
Then again, this is the same bunch that said "GEMS isn't connected to the internet" until finally admitting that it WAS via a gateway and firewall built for them by SAIC. |
linda_franz
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: linda_franz
Post Number: 149
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 7:47 am: |
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Whoa, wait a minute...
SAIC?
The same SAIC that did the "review" for Maryland of Diebold, presented to the public with a bunch of redacted stuff?
Ummm...there aren't too many degrees of speparation here, are there?
Did SAIC, or any of it's partners, have any relationship to Diebold before the Maryland review?
And if SAIC built something for an election system, shouldn't it be studied, tested, and certified? (Well, at least passed through the system, which seems to be the SOP)
I mean, doesn't sound like it's off the shelf stuff....
"Gateways" and "firewalls" could be- and should be- very selective. It's who or what decides on the selective that is interesting.
Besides the fact that this in no way excuses any Internet connections at all.
Is SAIC picking up the VoteHere banner? "Let us cover up the process and we'll guarantee your vote is counted." Won't do a thing to insure the vote was recorded as cast or that someone didn't go through and "vote" for people who didn't go to the polls, or.....well, so many ways for election fraud to occur.
But it's got nice icing on that cake made with buggy flour.... |
jimz
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: jimz
Post Number: 99
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 11:53 am: |
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One of the primary business lines for SAIC is government and defense consulting. So, yes, this is the same SAIC that did the Maryland analysis. According to their website ( saic.com):
quote:SAIC, a Fortune 500® company, now ranks as the largest employee-owned research and engineering firm in the United States. SAIC and its subsidiaries have more than 43,000 employees with offices in over 150 cities worldwide.
They are employee-owned, and when an employee leaves the company, the company buys the employee's shares back. Share prices are set by the company; it does not trade on an exchange. According to a January 28, 2005 press release, it appears that they, too, have security problems:
quote:SAIC was victim to a break in at one of its corporate facilities on January 25, 2005, and several personal computers were stolen that contained personal information on current and former stockholders. The facility where the break in occurred serves in an administrative capacity and is not used for performance on any of our government or commercial contracts.
Peace!
JimZ
The people who cast the votes decide nothing.
The people who count the votes decide everything.
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catherine_a
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: catherine_a
Post Number: 469
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 12:09 pm: |
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SAIC is also said to be one of the biggest defense industry contractors involved in black op projects. (The ones with no congressional oversight, where no one even knows the budget or even knows the project exists.) I'm sure they can do things with communications and electronic data that we cannot even dream of.
Interesting about employee ownership--yet there seem to be other shareholders as well. From the preceding excerpt I gather that the list of employees and the list of shareholders is not mutually inclusive. |
ubetchaiam
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ubetchaiam
Post Number: 96
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 2:24 pm: |
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Yes, SAIC does set their own 'stock price' ;you should have heard the screaming a couple of years ago when the powers that be devalued the 'stock'; but then Iraq came along and..........
Thnaks JimM. for finding out that SD does use VOTEREMOTE. I have come to find out I can submit more 'doc' to the SD County Grand Jury regarding my complaint so Bev's info on it is going in to them.
Oh,a p.s.; gateways and firewalls are NOT any source of guarantee against access; in fact, they can be set up so that specific locations can access a machine through a specified, uncommon 'port' in the IP 'stack'. AND, why isn't the County IT department doing this for the County Registrar? |
linda_franz
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: linda_franz
Post Number: 151
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 2:52 pm: |
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Hey, was it even passed by the county IT department?
There is probably a protocol involved and certain responsibilities that may have been bypassed.
Depends on if IT is part of the county elections tree or not.
But you'd think the IT department would have had to be involved in getting the lines in, etc.
Chain of command and responsibility.
I wonder who gave the elections department authority to contract with SAIC.
Or would SAIC have been a subcontractor under Diebold? |
ubetchaiam
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ubetchaiam
Post Number: 98
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 3:11 pm: |
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That's why I need access to the contracts. |
admin
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 1023
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 5:05 pm: |
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ubetcha -- one of the things we pulled out of the garbage was "work in progress' contracts. I have someone scanning them while I post other documents. I am really having a brain fart -- they are for San Diego or South Carolina -- but if my memory serves me right (which is increasingly iffy) they are for San Diego. Never thought to look for SAIC stuff in there. Of course, the final is needed, but it should be interesting also to view the unofficial from the dumpster. I'll ask someone to expedite that. -- Bev |
ubetchaiam
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: ubetchaiam
Post Number: 99
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 5:29 pm: |
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U know, I get those in between my 'senior moments'. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 2003
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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Any updates on this?
Is CA using Diebold's Vote Remote?
Is CA using Diebold's DIMS voter Registration System, or some other company's voter registration program?
This question is coming up at BradBlog and elsewhere. |
