Navigation
Topics
Log In
Log Out
:
Special Search
New Today
New This Week
Advanced Search
Tree View
Your Account
Edit Profile
Register
Forgot Password
Tools
Help/Instructions
Policies
...
|
| 5-20-08: Kentucky & Oregon election i... |
|
| Author |
Message |
    
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8101
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 6 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 4:19 pm: | 
|
In this article you will find tools to help you analyze the numbers as they come in from Kentucky and Oregon's May 20 primary elections.
Kentucky is a big problem, Oregon is just plain strange. I'll start with Oregon's all mail-in voting system before I tell you the really disturbing news about Kentucky. In Oregon, 100 percent of votes are absentee, or mail-in, although citizens do have the option to take their mailed ballot to an elections office to drop it off.
OREGON'S SURPRISING ELECTION DATA*
*Source: http://www.eac.gov/files/Eds2006/eds2006/Copy%20of%20eacdata(3).xls (Excel spreadsheet, huge mamajama, allow time to download. And see end of this article for tips on how to use.)
1. EVER WONDER ABOUT SIGNATURE VERIFICATION? Here's a little pop quiz: Out of 1.4 million Oregon votes in 2006, and knowing how people's signatures change over the years, how many signatures would you expect to mismatch?
ANSWER: Out of 1.4 million, the state of Oregon claims that 29 counties had ZERO mismatched signatures, and in the 10 remaining counties that reported mismatches, the grand total was (drum roll please)..... 34 ballots.
Yes, out of 1.4 million, just 34 signatures did not match. With those figures, it seems equally plausible that the dog's pawprint that made it through a couple election cycles in Washington State as would have fared just as well in Oregon. Heck, a scribble drawing or a blob of spaghetti might work fine too, we just don't know.
But what we do know is that according to data submitted by the state of Oregon to the EAC, Clackamas County had 146,968 ballots cast and not a single signature was too squiggly, scrawly or tilted to mismatch, and that Oregon has one of the lowest signature mismatch rates in America.
We're not wanting to disenfranchise people, but accepting every signature that floats in the door may not be a good thing. It puts extra pressure on the validity of the voter registration database and the postal delivery system, that's for sure.
2. FALSE: Oregon's claim that forced mail-in voting gives them higher turnout figures is simply not true. Oregon is squarely in the middle of the pack when it comes to voter turnout, when compared to the other 50 states in the same election.
3. MIRACLE POST OFFICE: Oregon also has a remarkably, some would say impossibly effective postal service. Here's what I know: Black Box Voting does periodic mailings, and we consider a mailing of 8,000 pieces to be spectacularly large, for us. Thirty-one of Oregon's counties mail more ballots in every election than we ever do, yet they never seem to have ballots arrive late or flop around battered and bruised, to be returned months later.
That's not our experience. Some of our mailers arrive late, some probably not at all, and a few look like they've taken a bruising trip to Mongolia before they belatedly return to us.
Yet out of 2.5 million ballots mailed out in the 2006 general election, Oregon reports ZERO ballots returned undeliverable, and only 54 reportedly came in after the deadline. Oddly, 44 of those were in one county. (Not Mulnomah, the biggest county, where Portland sits. It was Washington County).
4. VOTING MACHINES: Contrary to many citizens' beliefs, Oregon uses computerized voting machines statewide, almost all ES&S scanners, and if you'd like more information on the hackability of those, check out the EVEREST Report, choose the 334-page Academic Report and look up Election Systems & Software. Every component of the ES&S machines were found to be tamperable.
MOONSHINE MATH IN KENTUCKY
Kentucky never has accounted for its 2006 election math, as can be seen by examining the data reports published by the Election Assistance Commission (EAC) in the above link.*
(*See end of this article for hints on how to use the two EAC Inspector Gadget obstructo-matic secret decoder rings needed to make sense of this file)
That file contains the raw data submitted by each secretary of state, with details right down to the number of absentee ballots in the wrong envelope and the reasons voters were taken off lists. What it DOESN'T contain, however, is the number of votes counted in Kentucky in the 2006 General Election. When you search the minimal information presented in news reports back then, you see a glimmer of a hint that Kentucky had a statewide voting computer meltdown in 2006.
Kentucky submitted thousands of data points for the EAC 2006 survey for every one of its 120 counties but omitted -- you guessed it -- the votes. Results have been posted on Web sites, but I find myself wondering, given the all-too-real 2006 meltdown of the voting tally system in 96 counties, whether people in the Kentucky Secretary of State's office may have been reluctant to sign a federally required report committing to those very problematic results.
THE BULLITT COUNTY MISMATCH WENT STATEWIDE
Bullitt County, Kentucky citizen Kathy Greenwell could have told you that was going to happen. Her husband ran for sheriff in November 2006, and while she obtained copies to match up the voting machine results tapes with the announced results she discovered they didn't match. None of them.
Here's the article by Black Box Voting on that situation:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/47065.html - "Elections give you: The Judge, the Prosecutor & the Sheriff"
HERE'S HOW THE KENTUCKY VOTING MACHINES ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK
Voters cast their votes into paperless touchscreens at the polling place. At the end of Election Day, each voting machine spits out a results tape. Then, the cartridges from each voting machine are fed into a cartridge reader. It reads all the cartridges and transfers the data into a tallying program that adds them all up. And that's when Kathy Greenwell got her dander up in 2006, because the information coming out of the tally system didn't match the results on the poll tapes for any race.
As the evening progressed, the mismatches began to hop around like frogs on electronic lily pads. In addition to wildly fluctuating results, a bunch of questionable individuals started wandering in and out of the back room, many of whom were related to the Tinnell family, which had three members of the family on the ballot (Donnie Tinnell: Sheriff; Sherman Tinnell: Mayor; Melanie Roberts: Judge Executive). All the Tinnell people won, but none of the results ever did match up.
Kathy Greenwell keeps demanding answers, but never has gotten any. At one point Bullitt County Clerk Kevin Mooney gave her a new results tape which, he claimed, made things match up. Unfortunately, this new tape only balanced the mismatch out for Kathy's husband Dave Greenwell's sheriff's race. All the other races are still out of whack.
Bullitt County -- and the other 96 counties in Kentucky serviced by a voting machine services firm called HARP ENTERPRISES -- claimed that the incorrect vote totals were due to a "fusion problem" when the computer tried to add up the totals from the old Shoup/Danaher 1242 voting machines combined with the new Hart eSlate machines.
WHAT YOU DIDN'T READ IN THE NEWS ABOUT THIS:
1. Pennsylvania also has locations that use both these machines, and their fusion program works. Or at least so we are told -- Philadelphia County got the bright idea to charge the public to look at results there, restricting viewing to those who purchase a password, and we don't know if anyone did the same thing Kathy Greenwell did, matching up each tape to the published results you have to purchase.
Nevertheless, we have no evidence that Pennsylvania's system, same machines as Kentucky, is unable to match its own results up.
2. Kentucky then "solved" the problem by deciding to stop printing the reports so no one can check to see if they match.
Yes, that's what I said. Kentucky decided to use ONLY the poll tape results, hand entering them into a computer in the back room, and never put the cartridges into the reader, never generate that second report. With only one-half of the check and balance, you can neither check nor balance the poll tapes against the cartridge reader.
For "transparency", at least in Bullitt County, observers wait in a lobby with a small video picture of people sitting in a different room typing "you-can't-see-what" onto "screens-you-can't-see", with people occasionally wandering in and out of the videotaped area into completely unviewable areas, carrying items that look like poll tapes. On at least one occasion when Black Box Voting was there, they turned off the camera for a bit while they did "we-don't-know-what."
ELECTION WRANGLERS
They also had the Wrangler active that night. For those of you newbies to the activity known as "election monitoring" (also accurately termed "smacking into a brick wall") -- well, here's what a "Wrangler" is in Election lingo:
Government insiders, who are in there counting votes in secret on the computers they control, have a designated wrangler, or in trouble spots a couple of them. Their job is to distract observers if something interesting is going on. Blip-lights flicker -- out comes the lady with the candy tray. I once watched the "blue screen of death" appear on a crashing King County, Washington vote tabulator and while trying to write down the time and particulars, was accosted by the Republican Party observer who out of the blue left the computer room to engage me in a stubbornly aggressive conversation about nothing. In Bullitt County, Kentucky it was the candy tray lady, a trick reported by activists in other states as well.
3. And now we get to the best part. Scratch that. The worst part. The machines used in 96 of Kentucky's 120 counties, the Shoup/Danaher 1242s, can be tampered with rather easily by anyone with access during or shortly after the testing phase, but this could be caught -- unless you skip the step of loading in the cartridges to produce the tally report.
And that's just what Kentucky decided to do. In Kentucky, it was decided to stop reading the cartridges and use only the poll tape results. And this is precisely the check and balance cited to show that these old 1242 machines are "safe."
THINGS TO DO TO HELP MONITOR KENTUCKY
1) Wear a helmet. You'll be running into the brick wall.
2) Ask the officials to read the cartridges into the cartridge reader and print out a report to prove to you that the cartridge results match the voting machine results. The cartridges contain what is supposed to be the actual vote data.
3) Ask to inspect or get copies of the "poll tape" results. Ask for copies of the cartridge reader results.
4) Record the order in which Kentucky counties deliver their results tonight. Late results -- especially when accompanied by a trend reversal -- are associated with fraud.
5) Get screen shots of any tallies that go DOWN as results are coming in.
6) Hunt for "impossible numbers." Here are examples of impossible numbers found by Black Box Voting, the media, and citizen observers:
a) Barnstead, New Hampshire, 2008 primary. Fifty percent more votes than voters in the Democratic Party presidential race.
b) Election location in Harlem, New York: Obama got zero votes. Greenville, New Hampshire: Ron Paul got zero votes, and when citizens came forward swearing they'd voted for him, the Town Clerk found the missing votes. Sutton, New Hampshire: Ron Paul got zero votes. When citizens came forward swearing they'd voted for him, the Town Clerk found the missing votes. Note the pattern, hunt out the zeroes, onesies and twosies because they happen in every election.
THE IMPOSSIBLE NUMBERS HUNT
You can get lost inside that EAC data set for weeks, but in moments when you come up for air you'll be able to raise red flags that may help prevent problems this fall.
Black Box Voting is not a fan of the EAC, but the data surveys are actually quite terrific. They show that some locations are refusing to comply (like the entire state of New Hampshire, which refuses to provide even basic numbers like voter registration or number of votes). They provide at least the skeletal framework that has potential for quality control and fraud research.
And the data can be used, in conjunction with other data you find, to identify potential hotspots for trouble this fall.
Remember sixth grade math and story problems? The EAC data tables are a like a set of Lego's for constructing all kinds of interesting story problems. Which counties are most likely to binge and purge voter registration lists? You can get a good idea of that using these data tables. Which counties appear to have been stuffing the ballot box in the past? Yep, that can be divined as well. Hint: Lake County, the Indiana location that couldn't seem to find its votes for so many hours in this year's primary, is one.
THE CRACKERJACK EAC DECODER RINGS FOR THE DATA TABLES
And you'll need them, because they for some reason did not bother to put the labels on the columns to define what data each column contains. For that, you need to download this file:
http://www.eac.gov/files/Eds2006/eds2006/Survey_Data_Code_Names.xls (Excel file)
Then you get to do the fun and tedious activity of looking up the secret code in the decoder table to insert it on the top of each column.
But that's just the first decoder ring. Secret Agent Natalie, from Black Box Voting, wondered why none of the data could be summed up or divided for percentage analysis, and found that the EAC, in its infinite wisdom, converted the numeric data to text. What that means is that instead of reading the number "5" your computer reads it as text, like "f-i-v-e" and since it doesn't know how to perform math functions on alphabet letters, you can't perform simple tasks like ranking smallest to biggest, or dividing one number into another to get a percentage.
Black Box Voting has applied both decoder rings to all the data, and is providing the complete decoded, correctly labeled, numerically converted EAC data table as part of our 2008 Tool Kit
* * * * *
More information:
For more on Kentucky:
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/moonshine1.pdf
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/moonshine2.pdf
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/moonshine3.pdf
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/47065.html
Print story: The Hunt for Joe Bolton http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/54541.html
Black Box Voting YouTube video - Kentucky, The Hunt for Joe Bolton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpzahSVY_GM
Moonshine Elections: Family-run Government http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/54610.html
Moonshine America: Collapse of the "Trust Me" Model http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/70968.html
Black Box Voting YouTube video - Kentucky's Kathy Greenwell confronts New Hampshire Sec. State Bill Gardner, face to face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrdzXp3Zbmk
Black Box Voting 2008 Tool Kit:
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/toolkit.html
Oregon tools, thanks to John Howard:
http://www.bbvdocs.org/OR/state/Oregon-74022.htm |
John Howard
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Harmonyguy
Post Number: 588
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 9:38 pm: |
|
I've uploaded my Compendium of results pages for tomorrows Oregon Primary:
http://www.bbvdocs.org/OR/state/Oregon-74022.htm
Some of the sites are marked "(not yet)" which means that it appears that they will be displaying results, but have not yet published the URL. Those sites marked as "(no results)" are listed just in case they decide to start publishing results.
For any of the links that are not clickable, the link code IS in the file, the only thing you need to do to enable it is edit the file and on the appropriate line change
<a "http:
to
<a href="http:
Once again, I'd encourage the use of this file as an input file to a web mirroring software such as winHTtrack, to get time-slices of the results as they go up and down.
I've also included a couple of links to CBS' results pages. Feel free to add other news pages to the list.
HG;)
|
Jim Soper
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jim_soper
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2008
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 6:26 pm: |
|
RE: Oregon and ES&S Scanners -
Some ES&S Sanners have trouble reading certain blue inks. As an example, The CA SoS, Debra Bowen, had to write special rules for San Francisco to use ES&S machines last Nov.
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting_systems/pearson_rcv_letter_091407_07_0586 .pdf
What does Oregon do about this problem?
Jim Soper
www.CountedAsCast.com
|
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8103
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 7:48 pm: |
|
Good point, Jim Soper!
At greatest risk are the Optech machines which are sometimes serviced by ES&S and sometimes by Sequoia, same machine, it's from an old buyout of its original company (Business Records Corp, BRC); also the old "AIS" M150s. I'm not sure about the M550s, I believe those are a little older also. Here are the voting machines used in Oregon. I have highlighted in red the counties that use machines susceptible to poor performance depending on the chemical composition of the ink. And ALL votes are at high risk if marked in ball point pen, because that can quickly be lifted without leaving a trace using ink washing fluid, allowing the ballot to be re-voted.
state,county,voting machines
OR,Baker County,ES&S M150 central count optical scan (ES&S formerly AIS)
OR,Benton County,ES&S M550 central count optical scan
OR,Clackamas County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Clatsop County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Columbia County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan (ES&S formerly AIS)
OR,Coos County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Crook County,ES&S M150 central count optical scan (ES&S formerly AIS)
OR,Curry County,ES&S or Sequoia Optech IIIP Eagle (same machine, difft. vendors)
OR,Deschutes County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Douglas County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Gilliam County,Sequoia Pacific Optech IIIP Eagle optical scan
OR,Grant County,ES&S or Sequoia Optech IIIP Eagle (same machine, difft. vendors)
OR,Harney County,ES&S or Sequoia Optech IIIP Eagle (same machine, difft. vendors)
OR,Hood River County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Jackson County,ES&S M550 central count optical scan
OR,Jefferson County,ES&S M150 central count optical scan (ES&S formerly AIS)
OR,Josephine County,ES&S M550 central count optical scan
OR,Klamath County,ES&S M550 central count optical scan
OR,Lake County,Sequoia Pacific Optech IIIP Eagle optical scan
OR,Lane County,Sequoia Pacific Optech 400C Eagle optical scan
OR,Lincoln County,ES&S M550 central count optical scan
OR,Linn County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Malheur County,ES&S M150 central count optical scan (ES&S formerly AIS)
OR,Marion County,ES&S Optech IV-C optical scan
OR,Morrow County,ES&S M150 central count optical scan (ES&S formerly AIS)
OR,Multnomah County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Polk County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Sherman County,Sequoia Pacific Optech IIIP Eagle
OR,Tillamook County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Umatilla County,ES&S M550 central count optical scan
OR,Union County,ES&S M550 central count optical scan
OR,Wallowa County,ES&S or Sequoia Optech IIIP Eagle (same machine, difft. vendors)
OR,Wasco County,ES&S M550 central count optical scan
OR,Washington County,ES&S M650 central count optical scan
OR,Wheeler County,Sequoia Pacific Optech IIIP Eagle optical scan
OR,Yamhill County,ES&S Optech IV-C optical scan |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8104
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 7:56 pm: |
|
Here are the Kentucky voting machines, by county. I consider ALL counties in Kentucky to be at high risk for fraud, due to the centralized programming of the machines. Spectacular fraud histories exist in Clay County (election official currently in jail, $370,000 vote fraud slush fund found), and ridiculous risk for fraud includes Bullitt County and Knox, Knott, Whitley, and a slew of others.
state,county,voting machines
KY,Adair County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Allen County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Anderson County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Ballard County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Barren County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Bath County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Bell County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Boone County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Bourbon County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Boyd County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Boyle County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Bracken County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Breathitt County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Breckinridge County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Bullitt County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Butler County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Caldwell County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Calloway County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Campbell County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Carlisle County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Carroll County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Carter County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Casey County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Christian County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Clark County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Clay County,ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Clinton County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Crittenden County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Cumberland County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Daviess County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Edmonson County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Elliott County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Estill County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Fayette County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Fleming County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Floyd County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Franklin County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Fulton County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Gallatin County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Garrard County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Grant County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Graves County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Grayson County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Green County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Greenup County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Hancock County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Hardin County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Harlan County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Harrison County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Hart County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Henderson County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Henry County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Hickman County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Hopkins County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Jackson County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Jefferson County,Diebold/Premier Accuvote optical scan / Accuvote TSx DRE
KY,Jessamine County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Johnson County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Kenton County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Knott County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Knox County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Larue County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Laurel County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Lawrence County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Lee County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Leslie County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Letcher County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Lewis County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Lincoln County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Livingston County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Logan County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Lyon County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,McCracken County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,McCreary County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,McLean County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Madison County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Magoffin County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Marion County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Marshall County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Martin County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Mason County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Meade County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Menifee County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Mercer County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Metcalfe County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Monroe County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Montgomery County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Morgan County,ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Muhlenberg County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Nelson County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Nicholas County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Ohio County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Oldham County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Owen County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Owsley County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Pendleton County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Perry County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Pike County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Powell County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Pulaski County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Robertson County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Rockcastle County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Rowan County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Russell County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Scott County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Shelby County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Simpson County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Spencer County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Taylor County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Todd County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Trigg County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Trimble County,MicroVote MV-464 / ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Union County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Warren County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Washington County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Wayne County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Webster County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Whitley County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises
KY,Wolfe County,ES&S Ivotronic DRE - subcontractor: Joe Bolton
KY,Woodford County,Shouptronic Electronic 1242 DRE / Hart InterCivic eSlate DRE - Subcontractor: Harp Enterprises |
John Howard
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Harmonyguy
Post Number: 589
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 3 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 9:38 pm: |
|
I fail to understand how counties can report election results before what I understand to be the close of polls - 8:00pm
Here's a 7:31pm report from Polk County
http://www.co.polk.or.us/tempimages/firstsummary508.HTM
Or am I misunderstanding something?
HG;)
Here also is the updated Oregon Compendium v2.
A few more counties and a few that changed their file names.
|
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8106
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 9:41 pm: |
|
Good catch. With only a handful of people watching, we've now documented a county in Indiana and a county in Oregon reporting results before polls close.
It's not just hard to understand. It's illegal. |
John Howard
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Harmonyguy
Post Number: 590
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 10:20 pm: |
|
I also have to wonder about Baker County Oregon - VERY close DEM race - 3 votes difference.
http://www1.bakercounty.org/EResults.nsf/electionresults05202008?OpenFrameset
The County has reported at 8:23pm but at 9:39pm, the Secretary of State has yet to report any votes in that County, although the SoS shows that they last reported at 8:00pm. Where's the beef? If they reported the results - then report them. Don't hold them back just because they're close. (Blatant speculation on my part)
Add to the 'Early Release" crowd Marion County Oregon - It may be splitting hairs but 19:59:08 is NOT the same as 20:00:00
http://www.co.marion.or.us/NR/rdonlyres/6F634CC7-9697-446F-BE84-AD48BA5C8135/132 19/MAYACC08.TXT
And also Washington County Oregon at 7:58pm.
http://www.co.washington.or.us/deptmts/at/election/results/may08txt.htm
and Yamhill County at 7:41pm
http://www.co.yamhill.or.us/clerk/Elections_2008/20080520/Unofficial_Primary_Ele ction_Results.pdf
When such a simple law isn't being followed and they're so blatant about it, is it any wonder that some folks are concerned about integrity?
HG;) |
Jerry Berkman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jerry
Post Number: 101
Registered: 5-2006
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 10:21 pm: |
|
They say you can drop off ballots until 8:00 pm:
http://www.co.polk.or.us/Clerk/Documents/Dropsites.pdf
They shouldn't have any results while people can still vote. |
Gentry Lange
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Gentrylange
Post Number: 51
Registered: 9-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 9:24 am: |
|
Great info on Oregon. I've been watching Oregon of course for several years, and it's pretty hard to get accurate information out of that state. Bradblog did a good post on VBM as well. The 35,000 double ballot issue being the topic.
Of course that double ballot problem (changed party registrations), played itself out in Washington as 1/3 of Kitsap County Voters being disenfranchised in the primaries (not checking the pick-a-party box = no vote for you!):
http://novbm.wordpress.com/2008/02/07/vote-by-mail-disenfranchises-13rd-of-kitsa p-county-primary-voters/
Also, Oregon's system of VBM eliminates the possibility of exit polling. Which of course means that another transparency is eliminated.
I'll probably cross-post a link to your article on Oregon on the No Vote By Mail Project's blog, as you raise some new and interesting points that I had not thought of yet.
As always keep up the great work! |
Edward Pennington Craig
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Edward_craig
Post Number: 11
Registered: 1-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 9:28 am: |
|
Given the state of my signature since my stroke (Oct 06) I find this information mildly reassuring.
Noe if I trusted Sequoia's unauditable software... |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8109
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 9:40 am: |
|
Gentry,
I am actually awed by the work you've done on VBM. You forged in there when questioning it was unpopular and no one was doing much of anything (except the great Al Kolwicz of Colorado, who's been trudging along there doing great work). The research you've been doing is very enlightening.
Feel free to cross-post anything. By the way, King County is on the high side for signature rejections. I won't have the EAC spreadsheet tool ready for another few days, although I have a copy for my own use. But it will provide great information to debunk a lot of myths about vote by mail. On TV last night, they were repeating the same old saw, that it increases turnout.
You were the first person I'm aware of, Gentry, who exposed that as a myth. It has not increased turnout. Apparently Oregon did a study that showed that WITHIN THE STATE OF OREGON it increased turnout, but even that is something I question, because the voter reg lists were fairly inaccurate in most states from the old days when Oregon didn't have vote by mail.
Of course, the way the EAC configured their spreadsheet, in addition to the two secret decoder rings, they had the figures for number of registered voters on a different sheet than the number of votes cast, so it took an additional step to get the turnout figures and compare them with the percentage of ballots submitted by mail.
Also, Oregon's figures don't balance out. I may be missing something, but they seem to have an unexplained number of ballots not counted, without an identified reason anywhere. It's not huge, but the out of balance figures are found in almost all Oregon counties.
Of course, maybe they have yet another secret decoder ring. I notice that one section of data is omitted from the EAC's spreadsheet, even though they reference it elsewhere. That is the data for rejected overseas and military ballots, but that should not affect Oregon's analysis, because Oregon wrote that it lumps everything together with domestic civilian mail-in ballots because they can't separate it out. |
Gentry Lange
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Gentrylange
Post Number: 52
Registered: 9-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 10:21 am: |
|
Thanks Bev... as you know questioning people's beliefs is hard work.
I've actually got enough information for a book on the subject at this point.... know any publishers who would be interested? |
V. Kurt Bellman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Formerelecdir
Post Number: 2451
Registered: 4-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 12:37 pm: |
|
Bev,
I can imagine that having in one's "hot little paws" the bulk of all the ballots well before the close of polls makes for some POWERFUL temptation to jump the gun and start counting.
I know that we were REPEATEDLY AND NON-STOP being begged by pollworkers to allow them to start counting their absentee ballots before the polls close (they are not opened counted centrally, they are done at the precincts) and we had to almost get nasty telling them, "NO! UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES MAY YOU OPEN AN ABSENTEE BALLOT BEFORE EVERY IN-PERSON VOTER HAS VOTED!"
I heard sotto voce mutters like, "What they don't know won't hurt 'em."
So I understand the all too human desire to jump the gun and get home earlier. But dammit, THESE THINGS ARE CRIMES! Not just civilly actionable in most states - C-R-I-M-E-S!
As a general principal, no one's vote may be counted until EVERYONE'S vote has been cast.
But the "guy on the street" doesn't think about that. My own father repeatedly asks me on all these 2008 Primary days, "Any partial results yet?" He doesn't get the key fact - that there should NEVER be any partials until the polls have closed.
What Ohio did this spring in picking up mid-day ballots was, IMHO, just plain INSANE! Makes me question Brunner's "smarts" a bit.
==========================================
http://kurtspeak.blogspot.com
(some relevant to subjects here, most not)
|
karen reineke
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Karen_r
Post Number: 164
Registered: 12-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 2:18 pm: |
|
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2008/by_county/OR_Dem_0520.html?SIT E=NPRELN&SECTION=POLITICS
npr/ap results show 39 precincts still not reported for oregan |
John Howard
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Harmonyguy
Post Number: 591
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 4 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 10:27 pm: |
|
Multnomah County posts results 20+ hours in advance??
This county has posted its results dated a full day ahead of time. Today is Wednesday May 21st and yet they've posted their results with a Run Date of 05/22/08 and a Run Time of 03:53PM.
http://www.mcelections.org/2008-05/results.shtml
Ok, so what's the big deal? They're done with their count. They posted the final numbers generated from their system (ES&S I believe) on May 21st at 16:28, BUT the report itself is dated May 22nd at 3:53pm.
This suggests that the reports from the system are able to be set to whatever time the operator desires and/or that someone deliberately reset the clock on the system to a time in the future. Who? For what possible reason? Is this common practise? Is this practise used to illegally count ballots before the polls close and have them falsely dated and time stamped with a legitimate time in the future?
If my company was bidding on a tendered construction project in Multnomah County, and bids were advertised to close at a specific time, would I be able to 'bend' the clock and have my bid documents falsely dated and time stamped some 20 hours different, to make them 'appear' to have been submitted on time? I doubt it - and if I tried to, someone would likely raise such a stink that I'd never be able to bid on another project. Furthermore, I'd likely be charged with attempting to rig the bid.
If I was successful in coercing a County employee into falsely dating and time stamping my documents, that employee would likely be fired for dishonesty and charged with falsifying documents.
C'mon, this is an election we're talking about - at the very least, it's as important as any procurement bid. Does falsifying an election results document carry any importance, or will this county simply contribute to the continued erosion of the people's confidence in the integrity of their elections?
Multnomah - you got some 'splaining to do.
HG;)
(Angry, and I don't even live there!) |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8113
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 6:58 am: |
|
It is a big deal. Amazing information, John Howard -- correct dates and times on election information are a CRITICAL check and balance. This is an amazing catch. When you see premature reports and incorrect dates, it is a legitimate question to ask if these are even real results. |
V. Kurt Bellman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Formerelecdir
Post Number: 2460
Registered: 4-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 7:06 am: |
|
Interesting. Just for the record, as I write this, we STILL haven't reached 3:53PM on 5/22/08, yet here we have a document stamped at that time.
Luuuuuucyyyyy, you got some 'splainin' to do for SURE!
==========================================
http://kurtspeak.blogspot.com
(some relevant to subjects here, most not)
|
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8127
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 2:18 pm: |
|
I am experimenting with the new Propagation methodology and the "No More Oops" project from the soon to come 2008 Tool Kit.
For this I am focusing on propagating the Multnomah release of results before they exist and the Yamhill and Polk County release of results before the polls close. Will check back in with a report on how it's working. |
John Howard
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Harmonyguy
Post Number: 592
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 8:43 pm: |
|
So, Multnomah County has today updated their results. Their FINAL UNOFFICIAL RESULTS which were released May 21 at 16:28, but were dated May 22 at 3:53pm appear to have been transmitted to the Secretary of State's site, which today shows that the last update was May 21st (not 22nd) at 3:53pm (See the bottom of the list)
In the meantime however, Multnomah's FINAL UNOFFICIAL RESULTS are now no longer marked as either FINAL nor UNOFFICIAL and they've added an additional 2475 ballots, which if they have been reported to the Secretary of State, have not yet made it to the SoS results Web Site. (ok, it MAY have been too late in the day to get them in)
Here's the Secretary of State's results page from today, still showing yesterday's FINAL UNOFFICIAL RESULTS that were dated today, which by this time today had changed to........oh, heck!! now I'm getting confused. I don't know what to believe anymore.
It sure would be nice to see a believable, orderly, consistent, hands-kept-clapping-ABOVE-the-table, set of ballot counts, where numbers rise and not fall, and the gaffes, glitches, goofups, and garbage are not so frequently dismissed.
HG;) |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 5038
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 1:03 am: |
|
quote:It sure would be nice to see a believable, orderly, consistent, hands-kept-clapping-ABOVE-the-table, set of ballot counts, where numbers rise and not fall, and the gaffes, glitches, goofups, and garbage are not so frequently dismissed.
This should be so simple to achieve. It is absolutely mind-boggling how the simplest election functions become so convoluted and mangled and unbelievable that they are impossible to sort out--and that as a whole we are so willing to meekly accept this kind of crap without question or serious public scrutiny or reporting. |
Edward Pennington Craig
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Edward_craig
Post Number: 12
Registered: 1-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 10:14 am: |
|
I am actually reassured by the news you report from Oregon because my signature has been to my eye unrecognizable since my stroke in October 2006. |
Tim Gooch
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Timgooch
Post Number: 11
Registered: 4-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:15 am: |
|
Doesn't it make more sense to understand what an SHTML file is before presuming that someone reset the clock on the system? Server-side includes have been around since the early 90's on web servers.
Does this mean that everything's hunky dory? No... it just means that there's nothing suspicious about a file named "results.shtml" having a timestamp 20 hours prior to a report that's generated from that file. Every time you view an SHMTL file, the results are dynamically created by the server, so potentially you could refresh your browser a dozen times, see different data on your screen each time, and the timestamp on the file never changes.
http://www.kennesaw.edu/webmaster/whatis/shtml.html |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8134
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:20 am: |
|
Doesn't it make sense, Tim, to check the time and date stamp of John Howard's post, which contains an image of a file Multnomah County supposedly produced at 3:53 pm on Thursday May 22?
He posted that here Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 10:27 pm
You're the one wearing an egg right now.  |
Debora Blake
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Debora
Post Number: 2
Registered: 5-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 1:23 am: |
|
A possible explanation...
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks
Bev, please move this post elsewhere if you feel it shouldn't be part of this one. However, as you know, there is often much truth behind the sarcasm of parodies and I wanted to share this clever one with you, in case you hadn't seen it.
Regards,
Debora |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8144
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 7:32 am: |
|
Hi, Debora! Actually, the parody by "The Onion" is a good fit for this. Thanks for contributing it and glad to see you here at Black Box Voting. |
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 2143
Registered: 1-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 1:50 pm: |
|
About the signature bit; I'm left handed and was taught to write (for a while by nuns) and with all the attempt to slant letters to the right and all of that crap my signature changes on a daily basis. I understand that lefties are about 3% of the population; who wants to bet that there aren't a lot more lefties that 34, with the same writing idiosyncracies as me in each of the VBM states? It surely seems to point to very slack checking..... |
V. Kurt Bellman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Formerelecdir
Post Number: 2495
Registered: 4-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 2:33 pm: |
|
Brant,
Catholic education, huh? Well then, that starts to explain a lot. KIDDING!, ABSOLUTELY KIDDING!
The horror stories about nuns and left-handers are legion.
==========================================
http://kurtspeak.blogspot.com
(some relevant to subjects here, most not)
|
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 2146
Registered: 1-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 4:34 am: |
|
Yeah, a significant part of the problem is the reflex hand jerk, trying to evade the well-remembered ruler......
But seriously, there have to be more than 34 cases of changing signature that when first seen deserver a look, wouldn't you think? 34 in the whole darn state? Seems smelly to me..... |
V. Kurt Bellman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Formerelecdir
Post Number: 2496
Registered: 4-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 6:32 am: |
|
Brant,
Having done this for a living for four years, if the process is done as it was where I worked, the standard is "plausible match", meaning more likely than not being the same signature. There are indicators even for people who have suffered injuries, such as relative (not absolute) size of letters, boldness of writing, slant preference, squished versus spread, etc.
But a "best practice" is if a signature seems to be "migrating" a little to digitally capture a newer one for later matching as time goes on. When we saw a signature changing but still decently close to what we had, we flagged it for a rescan.
==========================================
http://kurtspeak.blogspot.com
(some relevant to subjects here, most not)
|
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 2148
Registered: 1-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 4:26 am: |
|
Wouldn't you expect more along the lines of 34 per county, at least? |
V. Kurt Bellman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Formerelecdir
Post Number: 2500
Registered: 4-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 8:24 am: |
|
Not really. It's low, but not ridiculously so.
In my county in 2004 (yes, this was not ALL VBM, but just absentees) we only had 2 rejected.
It's amazing how almost identical about 98% of all signtures were. I was frankly amazed. I wouldn't have suspected it. And remember, for absentees, they don't have their digitized signature to look at and emulate.
The 2% that were worth a second look were usually just getting a bit more shaky, from age and illness.
==========================================
http://kurtspeak.blogspot.com
(some relevant to subjects here, most not)
|
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8224
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 10:22 am: |
|
Yo Kurt: Two percent of Oregon's 1.4 million votes is 28,000.
But according to the EAC figures, Berks County PA had 238,697 registered voters in 2006; if 10 percent voted absentee, that's 23,870 votes, and if 2 of those were rejected that's .01 percent, not two percent.
If Oregon rejected .01 percent of its 1.4 million votes that would be 140 votes.
At least, that's what this girl-who-hated-math-in-school comes up with. |
V. Kurt Bellman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Formerelecdir
Post Number: 2501
Registered: 4-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 11:20 am: |
|
No, No, Bev,
We rejected two ballots. About 2 percent needed a closer look than the first glance to see if the sig match was plausible.
By the way, 10% is a very high rate of absentee voting. I've never seen anything close to that. We are an "excuse required" state. We have no absentee voting by choice. Even in a Presidential year, Berks County usually sees about 6,000 absentee ballots tops.
==========================================
http://kurtspeak.blogspot.com
(some relevant to subjects here, most not)
|
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8226
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 11:25 am: |
|
10 percent is about average for excuse required states. If Berks County has about 50% turnout and about 6000 absentees, that looks to be about 5 percent -- but maybe you're thinking of an off-cycle election, and in that case, with normal turnout of 25%, your 6000 votes would be 10 percent.
The exact figures for Berks County can be looked up in the EAC tables. |
V. Kurt Bellman
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Formerelecdir
Post Number: 2502
Registered: 4-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 11:52 am: |
|
I'd be curious. Our usual absentee rate is about 2%.
We also have the country's earliest absentee ballot deadline. If the ballot is not IN THE HANDS OF THE ELECTION OFFICE by 5PM the Friday before the election, it is too late.
Postmarks don't count, and the deadline is NOT Election Day.
==========================================
http://kurtspeak.blogspot.com
(some relevant to subjects here, most not)
|
Jim Soper
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jim_soper
Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 2:44 pm: |
|
Just a little reminder:
An 11/07 report from the Kentucky Attorney General reported that:
...
• Studies show that the electronic voting systems employed in Kentucky are not secure. ... Security upgrades must be promptly implemented.
• Current electronic voting system certification provides no meaningful security review. Kentucky's existing certification process merely rubber stamps a brief and flawed examination.
...
• Critical components are not presently tested. Certain critical voting system components have never been tested or certified at all. These include components which collect and report final ballot totals.
• No electronic voting systems in Kentucky have been certified by the federal government. It is up to Kentucky to ensure that voting systems are safe and reliable.
...
http://www.eac.gov/voting%20systems/docs/report-kentucky-voting-systems-certific ation-process2.pdf/attachment_download/file
Have a nice bluegrass day.
Jim Soper
www.CountedAsCast.com
|
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 8275
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 8:00 pm: |
|
Thanks, Jim. Every time I try to download that report (after it downloads the whole thing) I'm getting an error. Do you know if it's a new or old version of Acrobat? I've got version 7.0.
By the way, we're gradually transitioning into a geographic-and-vendor indexing system, kind of "as we go along" -- I indexed the state of Kentucky forum today, simplifying its organization, and moved your post there into the "State of Kentucky" section.
I'm so glad you located this information and posted it here. |
Jim Soper
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jim_soper
Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2008
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, June 1, 2008 - 1:34 am: |
|
I can read the 5,415,661 byte Kentucky.pdf file posted at the EAC in Adobe Acrobat Reader 8.1.2 on Windows XP.
It's late, and I don't have the time to figure out how to upload a file to BBV, so I've put a copy of what was posted at the EAC at http://www.CountedAsCast.com/usa/docs/kentucky_report_0711.pdf
Page 2 of the above report lists 3 docs at ag.ky.gov:
http://ag.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/38B944CF-1F47-44D3-82DD-ED46CE0E733B/0/votingsyste minvreport.pdf
This is titled "INVESTIGATIVE REPORT
Ensuring Your Vote Counts: Kentuchy 's Electronic Voting Systems", dated Sept 18, 07
APPENDICIES
http://ag.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/834C57D0-4CEF-4FFC-A79C-CD3951918F23/0/votingsyste minvreportappendicies.pdf
EXPERT REPORT
Improving Kentucky's Electronic Voting Systems Certifications
by Jeremy Epstein
September 28,2007
http://ag.ky.gov/NR/rdonlyres/1B3F7428-0728-4E83-AADB-51343C13FA29/0/votingexper tletter.pdf
Jim Soper
www.CountedAsCast.com
|
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 2150
Registered: 1-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, June 2, 2008 - 4:51 am: |
|
Am I missing something? I thought Oregon was all vote by mail. If so, every citizen would have mailed in their ballot. Figure out what percentage of your absentees that is, Kurt, then multiply it by the population of the state. That's probably heavily acentuating faults as many who vote absentee are infirm, but still, do that in Oregon and then divide it to half or a third and I'll bet you get a lot more than 38. If I'm wrong about the vote-by-mail thing in Oregon, imagine someone saying in Emily Latella's voice, "Never mind." . |
|
|
Oregon Compendium v2