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| 03-18-06: BBV EXCLUSIVE - Diebold TSx... |
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| Author |
Message |
    
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3835
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 10 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 9:33 pm: | 
|
Emery County Clerk Bruce Funk has been running elections for 23 years. He was quite content with his optical scan system. The state of Utah thought otherwise: On Dec. 27, Funk took delivery on 40 Diebold TSx touch-screen machines, part of a statewide directive.
"I had concerns about Diebold," says Funk, "but I thought, 'If the state is going to mandate it, then I guess they'll assume responsibility if anything goes wrong.'"
Not so. He soon learned that he will be responsible but the state will decide what election system will count the votes.
(photo: Bruce Funk, Emery County Clerk, with Diebold TSx shipment)
"You're going to hate my guts on Election Day"
Funk's concerns escalated when he heard a particularly unusual statement by Diebold sales rep Dana LaTour.
"Some of you are going to hate my guts on Election Day," she said to the assembly of elections officials. Later, another Diebold representative named Drew was asked what LaTour meant when she said "Some of you are going to hate my guts..."
"We're going to have problems on Election Day, and we're just going to have to work through them," he said.
Failures right out of the gate
Shortly after Funk received his "brand new" TSx machines, Diebold helped him do acceptance testing. Two of the 40 machines promptly failed the test. Diebold arranged to take them away.
The remaining machines showed several defects -- crooked paper feeds that jam, memory card bay doors that wouldn't close, parts getting stuck, coming loose, falling off.
Taking a closer look
Funk thought it might be a good idea to take a closer inventory.
He booted each machine up to check the battery. Some of the machines were marked with little yellow dots, and he got to wondering about that, too. He studied the screen messages, and noticed something very odd.
Most machines had about 25 MB of memory available, but some had only 7 MB of free memory left. One had only 4 MB of available memory. For perspective, the backup election file generated by the Diebold TSx is about 7.9 MB. Now why would brand new voting machines have used-up memory?
Time to get a more in depth evaluation
This prompted Funk to seek an evaluation. He asked Black Box Voting to help him analyze his voting system.
After several consultations, Black Box Voting determined that the nature of the problems in Emery County might be systemic and might be national in scope. Therefore, we arranged for and underwrote the services of Harri Hursti and Security Innovation, Inc.
Neither Funk nor Black Box Voting were prepared for the depth and breadth of the problems discovered. Based on these discoveries we will begin with a series of articles followed by concise, but more formal reports.
Part I
Hursti quickly determined the three most likely causes of the low memory problem:
1. There might be completely different software in the machines with low memory.
2. Some machines might contain different external data
3. Or, some of the machines might have been delivered with natively different amounts of memory available.
Hursti approached issue #2 first. If the used memory was due to external data or archived election files stored on the system, he reasoned, removing any such files would clear the memory. He discovered that some of the machines did contain test election data, and he deleted the extra data. This produced only a small improvement in available memory, however.
As for issue #1, different programs on the machines -- or, the existence of something stored in memory which is hidden, such a find would obviously be disturbing.
Issue #3, the possibility that some machines had different amounts of memory left in their life cycle, is particularly troubling. The technology choice Diebold made -- memory storage consisting of flash memory, which is known to degrade over time -- carries with it a possibility that used machines will be near the end of their memory life cycle. If such machines were delivered to Emery County as "new," this would be like buying a "new" car with 100,000 miles already on it.
The only thing that was known about the cause of this problem was that there were different amounts of memory. The reason remained to be discovered. In the course of evaluating the reason for the low memory, we learned much more about the TSx.
Is there an infra-red port for remote communications?
Hursti also examined the remote communications capabilities of this system. He found no infra-red (IrDA) ports.
"The whole thing here is that it's network aware even when RAS is not running. You're not dialing out and it's network aware. And it's actually configured to use an Ethernet board...It's all the time network aware...Perhaps all you need is this Ethernet cord and a wireless cord inserted and off you go."
"I haven't asked any 'pins' (Personal ID Number). It hasn't been hostile to me at all. It's a very friendly guy."
Hursti made a number of observations about the touch-screen, and connected it to his laptop for further "conversation."
In the interest of brevity, we will return to this issue in a later article in this series.
A "Shocking" discovery
It's common for polling places to have too few outlets for a bank of voting machines. The normal cure is to set up hook the computers up in a daisy-chain configuration, with one plug to the wall, and the rest of the plugs linking voting machines together.
Diebold's output plug falls out readily, exposing live 110 volt wall outlet power on bare wires.
This happened on every TSx we tested, and presents a significant safety hazard for poll workers, especially the elderly. According to Hursti, the electrocution might only result in a burned hand, and probably wouldn't be fatal.
This is a design flaw worthy of a general recall for standard consumer and office electronics.
Diebold: Down for the count?
While analyzing the memory storage problem, Hursti discovered a critical security hole in the foundation of the touch-screen. Then he found another in the "lobby," and another on the "first floor." Taken together, these present a potentially catastrophic security hole.
These are not programming errors, but architectural design decisions.
Black Box Voting is turning the "road map" of the most dangerous security findings over to the proper authorities. We won't let anybody sit on this for very long because elections are looming and elections officials need to know what to do now.
A concise and more formal report will be released from Security Innovation, Inc., and this will discuss the procedures for preparing a recovery path for these security holes.
Two things we have learned already:
1. Source code reviews alone are NOT sufficient. Access to fully functional systems MUST accompany source code reviews.
2. Honest election officials and citizens again take the lead in learning the truth about voting machines. We ask for maximum public support for Bruce Funk, who showed courage and commitment to responsible elections. The important and effective work of Utah voting integrity advocates Kathy Dopp (http://www.uscountvotes.org) and Jocelyn Strait should be applauded by fellow activists. They have played an important role to inspire this study in Utah, which may in turn assist with efforts in many other states.
PERMISSION TO REPRINT GRANTED, MUST LINK TO http://www.blackboxvoting.org |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3836
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 10:00 pm: |
|
Note: typo in above -- ethernet cord and wireless cord should say ethernet card and wireles card.
Editing is a bit of a hassle when the article contains graphics, so will just issue corrections on typos etc. in this message box. Sorry, have a cold, long days, tired, don't have as much time as usual. Hopefully things will return to normal by mid-week. |
Michelle Gabriel
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Michelle
Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 8:39 am: |
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As VP of Manufacturing at a small company in 1994 I was faced with exactly the same problem of the socket pulling out and exposing live wires. The socket has little plastic tabs on it so that it is easy to insert on the assembly line. When stressed, these tabs break off. If the socket supplier had a batch that was off spec or slightly weaker, a small stress can break them. We had to go back to a socket design that required screwing it into the chassis, which required a change to the chassis to be able to put the screws in. It took quite awhile to retrofit the chassis in stock, etc. This is probably way more detail than you want to know. I just know that Diebold will probably have a problem with changing the socket design and that if they do, it will take awhile. |
Jim March
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jimmarch
Post Number: 136
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 11:45 am: |
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What Diebold is facing appears to be actually stupider than that.
Here's a "top view" of the connector:
And here's the datasheet from the Taiwanese company that makes the connectors:
http://www.inalways.com.tw/admin/pdf/0709_PQ_PQA.pdf
As you can see, the two plastic "fingers" are angled at the tips. The distance between the tip of each finger and the face of the connector is less than the thickness of the Diebold plastic case on the base unit. In other words, the "fingers" aren't slipping fully behind the chassis wall.
My theory, and it's only a theory, is that since Taiwanese computer manufacturers prefer sheetmetal to injection-molded plastic, this connector was meant for sheetmetal. Being thinner, the "fingers" would go fully behind the chassis wall...and if not, the fingers would be less likely to slip on a sheetmetal edge than they would Diebold's slicker plastic.
It appears they need to replace every connector - but the chassis cutout is specific for THIS particular connector, so unless a new connector was oversize, this could be a really expensive mess.
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
TRIPLE PROTECTION FOR ELECTION 2006 - STARTING NOW:
(1) Use Freedom of Information, public records requests ("All American Paper Chase")
(2) Try Dumpster Diving for Democracy
(3) Candid America Project - Don't leave home without your camcorder
HOW TO DO IT: http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/6/6.html
|
Joseph Hall
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Joehall
Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 5:49 pm: |
|
Hi guys... here are a few of my own comments (mostly just
clarification):
> Issue #3, the possibility that some machines had different amounts
> of memory left in their life cycle, is particularly troubling. The
> technology choice Diebold made -- memory storage consisting of flash
> memory, which is known to degrade over time -- carries with it a
> possibility that used machines will be near the end of their memory
> life cycle. If such machines were delivered to Emery County as
> "new," this would be like buying a "new" car with 100,000 miles
> already on it.
Let me restate this: "BBV's theory is that the memory in the TSx
degrades over time. This results in a lower amount of total memory
available given a constant size of the voting application (which
should be the same size on each machine)." Is that correct? What if
DESI simply put different size memory chips in each machine? Is that a
possibility?
> "The whole thing here is that it's network aware even when RAS is
> not running. You're not dialing out and it's network aware. And it's
> actually configured to use an Ethernet board...It's all the time
> network aware...Perhaps all you need is this Ethernet cord and a
> wireless cord inserted and off you go."
>
> "I haven't asked any 'pins' (Personal ID Number). It hasn't been
> hostile to me at all. It's a very friendly guy."
This is pretty cryptic, even comming from Harri. What is RAS? What
is special when it is running? Does "network aware" refer to the
software state? The software is configured to use an ethernet board?
Is the last part supposed to read: "Perhaps all you need is an
Ethernet [card or] a wireless [card] inserted and off you go." Is
Hursti referring to the fact that he didn't ask for any PINs or the
machine didn't ask him for any? (an authentication of networking
issue) When he says it's a "very friendly guy" does he mean that it
poses no conflict to one who has access to the networking module (the
SD/bluetooth/ethernet slot) at all?
> Diebold's output plug falls out readily, exposing live 110 volt wall
> outlet power on bare wires.
Wow. It is amazing that the ITAs or state testers did not catch
this. It would be great to get a video or description of "readily"
means here. Do you apply a simple force perpendicular to the body
case and it pops out? Does it take any more special of a movement?
> While analyzing the memory storage problem, Hursti discovered a
> critical security hole in the foundation of the touch-screen.
The touchscreen on the machine itself (the touchscreen input monitor)
or the larger voting system? |
Joseph Hall
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Joehall
Post Number: 57
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 5:50 pm: |
|
I forgot to say that this looks like great work, once again, from all of you. best, Joe |
Russell Novkov
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Rnovkov
Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 6:36 pm: |
|
The Diebold Machines should not be used until the problems are corrected.
Russell J. Novkov
|
Jody Holder
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Holder
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 7:26 pm: |
|
From the pictures, and from Jim's description that the retaining clips do not catch on the inside of the case, this will happen every time the plug is pulled on. Which will be every time the machine is used. I also noticed immediately above the female outlet is a male outlet so these machines can be"daisy-chained". Those too are live prongs. Can you imagine an elderly person reaching around to move the machine or remove the power cord and the fingers coming into contact.
Not only are these voting systems defective in their firmware and software, they are defectiv in design and materials.
I would add my comment to Joe's. I am looking forward to a clear description of what was discovered in plain English, without acronyms. I need clarification of such terms as:
"network aware"
What is RAS?
What does it do when it is running?
We also know from the hardware guide for the TSx that it was originally hardwired to accept a wireless LAN/WAN card.
I am interested if the vulnerabilities are in the firmware of the TSx.
I am still trying to find an answer to whether the memory card can be accessed through another communications port, and if by going in through that would entail going in through the resident firmware. Does the firmware have the access code built in to it?
Don't the OS machines also have a serial and modem ports? |
Devin Ben-Hur
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dbenhur
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 9:51 pm: |
|
"Network aware" typically means that a system or software has components capable of sensing and communicating over a network. Even if a system has no network hardware installed it may be "network aware" if it has networking services installed and active.
RAS is an acronym for the Microsoft Windows component "Remote Access Service". It does what its name implies, allow and support remote network access to and from the computer. RAS is not the only service which allows remote access however.
In general, if one wants to prevent a machine from being accessed remotely, it is best to remove both the networking hardware and the software. Failing that, the devices and the software components should be disabled in a way which requires administrative access to re-enable. Windows is particularly difficult to configure in this way as its default configuration is to run a lot of network services automatically and it will promiscuously detect and install drivers for new hardware detected.
I believe Hursti was theorizing that when one had physical access to the machine, one could put a wireless (wi-fi,bluetooth) or wired (ethernet) device in an accessible slot or port and the underlying operating system would detect and use the device to speak to the network automatically and thus enable remote access vulnerabilities. |
Jim March
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Jimmarch
Post Number: 137
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 10:05 pm: |
|
Let's start with the power plug:
If you pull the standard three-prong plug that goes into the connector straight out, there's a decent possibility it will pop out. I would not call it "every time".
If you pull the plug out at an angle, as would be common if you were trying to get extra leverage if you didn't have much strength or it's positioned at an odd angle, the odds go WAY up of it coming loose. Once you've done it once or twice, you can replicate the failure at will with minor amounts of strength.
Another point: the length of the wires inside seems to vary. Some will come loose but not have enough length to "dangle" enough to expose live wires. Most however will expose at least some bare wire and some dangle pretty seriously.
I have a pic of one around here somewhere...ah:
This is a great shot showing one about as loose as they get. I've cropped this to fit the forum software, there is NO power cord connected or human hand holding this, it's just dangling. You can also see how the internal 110v power wires are soldered to "spade connectors" behind the plug. The wire ends, solder and spade (flat piece of metal on the connector) are all "hot" if the top plug is plugged in as it is in this picture.
(Two out of the three wires are "hot", one is ground and harmless. You only need to touch one "hot" to get seriously zapped.)
------------
Quoting Joe Hall:
Let me restate this: "BBV's theory is that the memory in the TSx degrades over time. This results in a lower amount of total memory available given a constant size of the voting application (which should be the same size on each machine)." Is that correct? What if DESI simply put different size memory chips in each machine? Is that a possibility?
Joe, that's just one possibility, that it's degrading flash memory.
The other leading theories are:
* Different amounts of Diebold-supplied program code in there (meaning, different software revisions OR different Windows CE installs, or both).
* Leftover data from prior elections - which would be peculiar on new machines, but then again Diebold TSxes were removed from Solano County as one example, so might have been "recycled"?
You've presented a fourth theory, that there's differing amounts of installed hardware memory.
That's not impossible, but it would be very peculiar as this is a certified system...certified with a set amount of flash RAM. If they ARE shipping different hardware configurations, that's not legal as Utah is one of the states that requires adherence to the Federal cert process.
Then again, this IS Diebold we're talking about.
I think this isn't as likely but yeah, I wouldn't call it impossible.
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
TRIPLE PROTECTION FOR ELECTION 2006 - STARTING NOW:
(1) Use Freedom of Information, public records requests ("All American Paper Chase")
(2) Try Dumpster Diving for Democracy
(3) Candid America Project - Don't leave home without your camcorder
HOW TO DO IT: http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/6/6.html
|
Joseph Hall
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Joehall
Post Number: 58
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 9:18 am: |
|
great stuff... can't wait to hear more when you're in a position to say more. best, Joe |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3839
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 1:13 pm: |
|
IMPORTANT:
A board of commissioners meeting will take place in Emery County, Utah tomorrow evening. Remember Ion Sancho -- please, please express your support for Bruce Funk. We would like to enable him to go into that meeting armed with a stack of support letters demonstrating that citizens believe his decision was responsible, and critical to democracy.
Bruce C. Funk
Clerk/Auditor
Fax: (435) 381-5183
95 East Main
Castle Dale, Emery County
Utah 84513
funk@co.emery.ut.us
Fax is best, email good as well, or do both plus a snail mail.
Sample:
"I have read about the important findings in Emery County, Utah. I am writing to let you know that all over America there are citizens like me, who view Bruce Funk as a national hero for having the courage and vision to evaluate the voting system his voters will be using in upcoming elections.
His examination revealed problems with memory that are difficult to explain. Are these machines used? What is Diebold's reasoning?
These tests exposed severe security vulnerabilities in Emery County's Diebold voting system, and these defects will be reported to CERT, the computer emergency response team under the Dept. of Homeland Security, as a general security alert. Thus, the act of checking the unusual memory and the other numerous defects will have an effect on voting integrity in many states, not just Utah.
Our nation needs secure, accessible, auditable voting systems to ensure that our democracy may not only thrive, but survive. Mr. Funk's heroic actions are helping to accomplish that goal.
Sincerely,
Your name here
* * * * *
I just spoke with Hursti, who was preparing to board a flight back to Finland. He is so concerned about what was found that he may turn around and come right back, after dealing with some priorities he has in Europe.
It is unfortunate that we cannot provide more details on the security holes until after protective measures are provided to authorities. Even that is not simple, in that the report provided to authorities must be sufficiently precise to demonstrate credibility and the appropriate urgency.
The nature of these holes is that they can be exploited relatively quickly (i.e. within a week) by people with a good working knowledge of Windows, which is quite a substantial pool. The exploit can take place in a matter of seconds at any time during the life of the machine and the exploit will be persistent in that it can survive from election to election, flexible so that it can trigger only when desired, will be extremely difficult to detect even for security professionals, and will be able to remain even if the system is "cleaned" or upgraded.
There is a recovery path, but because the security holes are in the architectural design put there by the vendor, the strong recommendation will be that a third party -- i.e. the state or a security company selected by the state -- perform the mitigation procedure. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3840
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 3:02 pm: |
|
From Kathy Dopp:
Anyone who wants to send an email to Bruce Funk AND all Emery County Commissioners and Utah Election Office please use the Click once link on
http://utahcountvotes.org
Thanks.
Kathy Dopp
http://electionarchive.org |
Doug Cragoe
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Dcragoe
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:13 pm: |
|
How to fix the faulty electrical output plug!
1) First find out how many watts or amps each voting machine draws. Then multiply that by how many machines you want daisy chain together. Ask somebody who understands electricity if that will blow the circuit breaker. If not, then proceed to step 2.
2) Before pluging any electrical connector into a live wall outlet, connect all the machines to each other and make your daisy chain.
3) Get a lot of strong duct tape and tape in the plug that's likely to fall out. Then tape a good 2 feet of the wire coming out of that plug onto the side of the machine. That will prevent any tugs on the wire from pulling the connector out.
4) Now you can safely plug the male connector into a live wall outlet.
It may look kind of funny to have to do that to brand new equipment, but it will solve the problem. |
Pat Vesely
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Pat_vesely
Post Number: 131
Registered: 02-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
|
"It may look kind of funny to have to do that to brand new equipment, but it will solve the problem."
So will a paper ballot and a pencil!
In the event that the one unit required for the disabled to vote happens to short out and blow a circuit breaker, open the curtains and put up the shades or light a candle if it's after dark.
DRE's, a high tech solution to a low tech problem offering 1/10th the reliability at 10 times the price! Progress at it's finest. 
Pat A. Vesely ;-)
Paper ballots are the 'Currency of Democracy'. They've been helping to curb election fraud since 139 BCE!
|
John Washburn
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Johnwashburn
Post Number: 53
Registered: 02-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 6:54 am: |
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For $2,000 a unit I expect more than duct tape solutions. |
joan brunwasser
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Rafijoan
Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 7:51 am: |
|
Who's got a piece on HAVA and how the various states are being rushed to make bad decisions, etc? If anyone has written or seen such an article, I would like it to post for OpEdNews where I am an editor. I keep posting what is happening on the ground various places, but as my boss, Rob Kall, points out, we lack anything that gives a good overview. Send it to me at rafijoan@gmail.com and I will get it up on OpEdNews. Likewise, with good pieces with local angles. Also, anything on the provenance of the various voting machine companies. did i read somewhere that one of the companies is partly or wholly owned by the Carlyle group?
Joan B
|
S Armstrong
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Starmstr
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 9:33 am: |
|
Research the Touch Screen as Two-Way Wireless Port
Ok, I'm new here, but have lurked for many months. I'm putting on a double layer of tin foil and leaping into a highly speculative mode in order to throw out some theories to check out since you may get further access to these machines.
An old magician's strategy is hiding the main trick in plain view but disguised as something with 'obvious' functions, and then to have multiple ways to pull off the 'same' trick so repeat requests 'work' without throwing off the kinds of repetitive cues which trigger normal human pattern recognition. Step back and look at what all these communications options can mean.
That infrared communications component was an interesting find. As a developer, I'm worried about certain less-known programmer tricks that can use certain touch monitor screens to invisibly send and receive data with infrared aware devices, perhaps interacting with handheld PDA devices or cell phones with infrared or optical ports, or even a TV remote, or a scanner like a Cue Cat.
Code or data could be injected that way if there is receiving software background process running on the system. Simple VBA code could suffice for this on the 'server' side, or perhaps be built directly into extended EPROM/BIOS areas of the machine.
Also, that exposed outlet deal designed for daisy chained electrical connection sounds very suspicious as well. Networking across AC wired lines is easily accomplished as well being nearly undetectable, unless you knew to look for it. Having this outlet exposed to any other electrical plug...we have another easy networking access path in and out while it's on the election floor.
If there are USB ports, a wireless USB stick can be attached in seconds, and wireless data communications suddenly made possible at speeds of 11 million to 108 million bits per second, or more. Perhaps communicating with an intermediate relay server located in a nearby van or facility. Or even a direct USB micro-hard drive can be attached.
Note that there are networking processes can can be made to run across older style serial and parallel ports as well. And many old timers will recall Laplink cables and their later infrared equivalents.
You cannot assume innocent use for any exposed port of an elections computer. And you may very well need to demand and verify that no hidden ports exist as well. If any of the machine's '}ports' can be programmed to provide an interactive networked command line, and in under Windows this is now trival to write, then any code manipulation is possible once it's opened. And if a port is opened to a local device which has WAN connectivity, suddenly one may well wonder about just how direct the communications might be to something like Rove's massive array of White House computers.
I'd want to test a theory that these 'voting' machines are actually networking Hydra, and have quite a few ways and modes to support communications and data manipulation that aren't publicly documented. That provides failsafes and a variety of implementation options for those intent on hard to detect fraud. No two technicians need be seen doing the same steps to accomplish the same goal, and they can randomly select which one to use. No pattern of manufactored glitches needs to appear which require the same service - so there is little chance of arousing our normal pattern recognition awareness.
Experienced criminal manipulators could not afford to arose suspicion by overly repeating the same approaches since people do watch for and can detect real patterns. But if the patterns vary greatly, even very bright people can be stymied for a long time, since they have to work through a wider and wider net of possibilities. Most people only look for one smoking gun, not an embedded networking platoon.
A machine with many possible avenues, like the Hydra monster of old, of communication manipulation in order to avoid normal human pattern recognition and suspicion is just what a stealthy vote doctor would order.
I'd also look for ways these machines can be dynamically tuned to under or over report votes while on the election floor, or to change the frequency of delays or even 'failure' rates in selectable areas, so as to repress the vote where outcomes appear to be unwanted. Death by a thousand cuts is a strategy that would be hard to detect, until you know to look for it. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3849
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 12:11 pm: |
|
The post above is overly speculative. Note that we did NOT find infra-red ports.
We want to focus on what we did actually find, and that will take a few days, perhaps a couple weeks, to formalize. |
Jody Holder
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Holder
Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2005
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 9:33 pm: |
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The AccuVote-TSx does not have a IrDA (infra-red) port, but the AccuVote-TS does. There are thousands of those machines already in use throughout the country, most notably Florida, Georgia, and Maryland. But S Armstrong has touched on the current security mitigation failure in California, that is covering only the access door to the memory card in the TSx machine while leaving all the other ports unprotected. This is especially eggregious when we know these machines are sent home days ahead of elections with poll workers, and many times are left unattended at poll locations prior to the election.
He mentions USB ports. The TSx does not have a USB port that I know of, but it does have a RS-232 (serial) port. There are adapter cables that will connect a USB connnection to a serial port. It would be a simple matter to connect one of the USB devices he mentioned. That same connecton could be made to a laptop or any other device. There are also other communication ports on the TSx.
I am not sure if there was as much deviousness in the design as is suggested. What we do know is that the system was poorly designed (an understatement), is vulnerable to attack in multiple ways, and has yet to be subjected to a thorough scientific deconstruction.
I hope that the courageous actions of Utah's Bruce Funk last week, combined with the investigative skills of Black Box Voting and the technical skills of Harri Hursti and Innovative Designs will result in the most indepth examination of the AccuVote-TSx to date. |
Doug Fields
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Def94528
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 2 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 9:59 am: |
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Has the AccuVote-TSx been checked for an internal wireless Wireless Networking chip? I had a Dell and you could turn Wireless Networking on in the Bios. To make matters worse, if Wireless Networking is configured, you can be within a few hundred feet and upload/download software, telnet into the system, edit files ... This is standard Microsoft 101.
Hmm, who is in the Van outside? |
Pat Vesely
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Pat_vesely
Post Number: 134
Registered: 02-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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Hi Doug, Welcome to Black Box Voting!
I guess that we're going to have to wait until US-CERT has had a chance to issue a response to Harri's report before all the details can be made public, but until then, we might get some clues from what Harri has already stated above.
quote:"The whole thing here is that it's network aware even when RAS is not running. You're not dialing out and it's network aware. And it's actually configured to use an Ethernet board...It's all the time network aware...Perhaps all you need is this Ethernet card and a wireless card inserted and off you go."
My reading of that statement leads me to believe that all it would take is one person with malicious intent to get access to a machine and install a bluetooth or wireless card and the machine will simply enable it without having to set any options.
As has been stated before, the architecture of these machines is such that someone need only get access to the machine once, in order to plant a small program that would be almost impossible to find, and would work for the entire life of the machine.
Pat A. Vesely ;-)
Paper ballots are the 'Currency of Democracy'. They've been helping to curb election fraud since 139 BCE!
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Doug Fields
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Def94528
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:49 am: |
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Your right. He has to pop the cover and look under the hood.
We have no record of the type of software tested, rev of software, if its been modified.
The wireless portion is is even more scary. Some of the Intel chips have it built in. No card needed, its all internal.
And, if you set up the wireless properly, you can't detect it unless you know its "SSID". If you know it and the password, the system is wide open... all from several hundred yards away.
Another reason to go back to paper. |
Edward Robles
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Tedeger
Post Number: 33
Registered: 11-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 1:09 pm: |
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Remember what my young friend the programmer said; "Give me five minutes acceess to any of the machines, and I'll elect Mickey Mouse to any office in the land." Machines which are that vulnerable should not be used, PERIOD. It may be that paper ballots and pencils or rubber stamps are old hat and not de rigeur with the current electronic craze, but they are at least accurate, which the Diebold machines manifestly are not. The Uroseviches should be haled before the bar of justice as the perpetrators of massive fraud, fined and/or jailed, and NONE of the Diebold or ES&S machines used for anything except boat anchors. |
S Armstrong
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Starmstr
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 4:38 pm: |
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I appreciate that others don't feel I'm totally off the wall.
Question any elections official should be prompted ask, after reviewing that wiring issue:
Are these systems electrically certifed - as in by UL or any other certifying lab?
Are these systems ISO 9001 compliant?
Demanding hardware standards compliance in public voting systems seems like the sort of no-brainer to which all parties should agree.
So consider adding to that request for source code a hardware component listing--presumably they're mostly commodity items. Demand a full listing of commodity hardware components, by type, source, IC chips make and model numbers. If a box can be opened, it should be possible to identify all the components and confirm their function.
It even should be possible to build a replica white box unit, perhaps in a lab setting monitored by Diebold and public officers, that performs exactly the same way, and giving off similar RF signature. Inspectors could sign an NDA agreement to not reveal proprietary or trade secret items, with the exception that the NDA is void if evidence is found to support documented election fraud scenarios.
The test should use the system's binary program as supplied by Diebold, and also tested when loaded with the compiled source code which would be provided seperately. There should be a CRC Check Sum match of compiled code and code supplied. It should tested to verify it functions and behaves the same.
And thanks again to those technically minded souls who understood what I previously described as possible isn't really so far fetched. If one way is ever found, don't stop looking for other ways.
If goal ever was to devise something devious, some techies out here could put together some very interesting apparatus and functionality. I am probably not alone in having programmed PCs and unix systems since the 80's, and I can understand and code for most systems and interfaces, open and embedded. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 1935
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 2:39 am: |
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St(?) (is that for Steve?)
There was an extensive discussion about trying to get a list of the complete Physical Configuration Audit (PCA) as approved by the ITAs. This was done under FOI. The request was rejected because it was claimed to be company trade secrets.
If you search for PCA you will find several threads where this topic was discussed. |
Sharon M. Foster
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Smfoster
Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 8:45 am: |
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One of the most important advantages of good old paper ballots is that any ordinary citizen can be a witness to the tally and understand what is going on. Who is going to be a competent witness to the "opening" of the e-voting machines?
I like the "Mickey Mouse" line--I'm going to start using it myself. |
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 473
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 12:03 pm: |
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On the loose cord issue: those ears are supposed to flip out once inside the machine (they're kind of spring loaded) and this needs to things the thickness of the wall of what it's going into has to be thin enough to allow the 'flip', and the hole size needs to be close enough to allow the 'flipped' plastic pieces to catch.
I repair parts for industrial printers so I've installed items similar to these 20 or 30 times, it has always been my experience that these parts always go in tight when things are correctly sized for the 'ears' to get purchase.
If procedures for clearing memory used in 'factory test' are inconsistently applied, then you'll get this goofy stuff as well. Sloppiness and incompetance also appear as many things, too! But it may well be something isn't on the up and up as well. If you could get back to a command prompt, some of these things might be comparable. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3885
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 1:25 pm: |
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Brent: I think you and Jim are on the same page regarding the diagnosis of the electical problem. The thickness of the plastic wall is too great for the ears to catch, the way I understand it.
Can you talk about the issues of clearing memory in the 'factory test' -- for example, would that explain having most of the units with 25-29 MB of memory but 20 percent of the units with 4-11 MB remaining useable? Doesn't 4 MB imply an awful lot of memory used? Also, what kind of actions did you take to "clean" things at the factory?
Diebold has offered an explanation. I want to see that explanation on tape or in writing before we release it. Their explanation has nothing to do with "cleaning" the memory but then again, Diebold's explanations frequently have little to do with the truth, either. |
Rose King
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Sparklynrosy
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 7:31 pm: |
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i was voting in Fl for the 2000 election where President Bush won, well it was a touch machine not a pull down and it went to George Bush i know i pushed the right one, it was clearly started on there however when i asked the woman at the voting place she said that to just redo it at the end of the voting so i did but how do i know if it really went though corrected |
Marian Beddill
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Uu7thprinciple
Post Number: 26
Registered: 08-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 7:40 pm: |
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Rose wrote: "... so i did but how do i know if it really went though corrected..."
My friend in Brasil has in his signature line (referring to the national elections agency):
"I know who I voted for.
They know that, too.
But only they know for whom my vote was counted." |
Shaun Knapp
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Angry_utahan
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 3:08 am: |
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Mr Funk from Utah’s Emery County will be getting a call of support from me. We have some corrupt people in this state, and the Republican party (I’m formerly of that party) just had Mike Ridgeway, a federal candidate running against US Senator Orrin Hatch, removed this past week illegally from his caucus meeting by a Sherriff’s Deputy. The lawsuit that I hope springs from this event could be huge, provided there is a law firm with the patriotism to take on the Republican Party (in name only) Establishment of this state, who are anything but conservative, corrupt party bosses who despise the Party Platform, not to mention the US Constitution.
This event this last week received a near media blackout, and inasmuch as the newspaper covered it, we have little mentioned of truth, but of character assassination. Likewise, this story of faulty voting machines will prove not “newsworthy” for Salt Lake City broadcast journalists Editors, nor was the illegal entry of a police officer into the bedroom of teenage daughter of one of my professors. She awoke to his police radio as he stood in her room gazing at her, and she lay alone in her house. What an awful thing to occur to a teenage girl or anyone. And what of the Salt Lake Media? They refused to run the story, as it “gives the police a bad name.” Criminals. How do we have police feeling they can enter anywhere without a warrant now, and they won’t be held accountable! There seems to be no “restriction” upon them because of their now touting the “Patriot Act” as the do all of anything they want to attempt to do.
Jefferson said:
“In questions of power then, let no more be heard of confidence
in man but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”
Now we have this. How I revere Mr. Funk for his integrity.
These Electronic Voting Machines are treacherous. What an abomination that we have had states all over this country spend millions of dollars for these faulty, fraudulent, machines.
These are machines geared to fix elections, as testified of by Mr. Clinton Eugene Curtis, a computer programer, testifying under oath before Congress in 2004.
You can see that video here with real media player:
http://www.edwardsdavid.com/BushVideos/2004-12-13_Conyers_Clint_Curtis01.ram
this image courtesy of the Propaganda Remix project found here:
http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/PhotoAlbum1.html
How many here have watched this testimony of Mr. Curtis, a computer programer under oath before Congress testify of his own programing of such machines? Look this up, it’s critical for us to understand. Shout it from the Rooftops. Lets stop these voting machines now, and demand a refund, send them back from whence they came.
Foolish, foolish America for permitting these machines to be brought in. Joseph Stalin would be proud, for he was the one who stated:
“Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”
I’ve voted for over a decade and there is no such thing as a hanging chad. I’ve spoken with many people on this, and they all agree, the current voting system is simple, easy, and no one believes that there is such a thing as a “hanging chad,” certainly not from the traditional paper ballot system we use here in Utah. There is no justification for electronic voting machines. What a tragedy.
Will there ever be a legitimate election in Utah with these machines? Call me cynical, but I don’t have any confidence in them, but I believe they have been brought in for the purpose of fraud.
I’ve spoken to elections judges here in the State of Utah, who feel it’s a shame we’re going to these new machines, acknowledging no problem with the paper ballots system currently in place.
I hold my state legislators in contempt for their making the move toward these fraud based voting machines. This is not justified. I hope momentum will grow toward ridding ourselves of all those in this State of Utah who voted to have this new fraudulent prone system brought in. Certainly the incumbents find this as the perpetual guarantor that they shall never be removed from office.
Let’s expose this fraud, and move toward our traditional paper ballot system, and stop dealing with this idiotic Diebold system.
http://www.edwardsdavid.com/BushVideos/2004-12-13_Conyers_Clint_Curtis01.ram
http://homepage.mac.com/leperous/PhotoAlbum1.html |
Kathleen Wynne
Moderator
Username: Admin_ii
Post Number: 222
Registered: 08-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 6:59 am: |
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Hi Shaun,
Welcome to BBV!
I read with great interest your heartfelt words. I feel pretty much the same way as you do. I have often wondered why and how such a large number of our legislators and election officials continue to support these machines, despite the mountains of evidence brought forth by election reform advocates and citizens everywhere clearly showing these machines are not at all as accurate and problem-free as the vendors continue to say they are. If these machines were cars, we would have junked them a long time ago and gotten our money back.
Here's an examaple of what we are still dealing with regarding the relationship between election officials and the vendors. I recently heard from a very effective and tenancious activist in Wisconsin, John Washburn, who told me that the Commissioners in his county stood up and applauded when it was announced that they had decided to go with the Diebold voting machines. They did so despite all of John's great efforts in showing them why they shouldn't!
I asked John if he had gotten the response of the commissioners on film and I was pleased to hear that he had. In fact, he's sending BBV the tape. I predict that someday the Commissioners might come to regret their open, unabridged support for a vendor, when they learn that the concerns of John and other citizens of Wisconsin were well-founded and they should have listened to them.
I'm very glad that you are planning to call Mr. Funk and tell him of your support. I urge you to appeal to others to do the same. He deserves not only the support of the citizens of Utah, but the support of all concerned citizens from around the country as well. He is a true American hero and patriot. I'm sure history will agree.
Kathleen Wynne
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
* * * * * *
TRIPLE PROTECTION FOR ELECTION 2006 - STARTING NOW:
(1) Use Freedom of Information, public records requests ("All American Paper Chase")
(2) Try Dumpster Diving for Democracy
(3) Candid America Project - Don't leave home without your camcorder
HOW TO DO IT: http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/6/6.html
|
Shaun Knapp
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Angry_utahan
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 4:25 pm: |
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Thank you Kathleen,
It seems all incumbants are backing these machines. Probably the only people found opposing such fraud based machines who currently hold public office might be Republican Ron Paul of Texas. What a great guy he is in standing for the US Constitution.
The wisdom of taking a camcorder to events is truly becoming critical. Good call. I love your three point protection program. Unless we have a great uprising from an incredibly appathetic citizenry, our Republic is all but gone. However, I think it will not be lost, it might get uglier before it gets better, but I for one will not live under a tyranny, I'll die first, that that showdown is not quite here yet, our officials seem to be bent on bringing it about ASAP.
One of my great hero's, a man who was bitterly criticized for his strong witness and testimony dealing with corruption and treason from within, was Dwight D. Eisenhower's Secretary of Agriculture, Ezra Taft Benson. Benson passed away 12 years ago, but one thing he stated boldy 20 years ago was:
“To all who have discerning eyes, it is apparent that the republican form of government established by our noble forefathers cannot long endure once fundamental principles are abandoned. Momentum is gathering for another conflict—a repetition of the crisis of two hundred years ago. This collision of ideas is worldwide. The issue is the same that precipitated the great pre mortal conflict—will men be free to determine their own course of action or must they be coerced?” (The Constitution: A Heavenly Banner, p. 27; as quoted in The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 623.) [He stated this while Church President.]
“At this particular moment in history the United States Constitution is definitely threatened, and every citizen should know about it. The warning of this hour should resound through the corridors of every American institution—schools, churches, the halls of Congress, press, radio, and television, and so far as I am concerned it will resound—with God’s help.
“Wherever possible I have tried to speak out. It is for this very reason that certain people in Washington have bitterly criticized me. They don’t want people to hear the message. It embarrasses them. The things which are destroying the Constitution are the things they have been voting for. They are afraid of their political careers if these facts are pointed out. They therefore try to silence any who carry the message—anyone who will stand up and be counted.” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 684.)
I love that kind of bold declaration. If you'd like to listen to one of the most amazing speaches dealing with treason from within, click here.http://www.awakeandarise.org/media/StandUpForFreedom-by_Ezra_Taft_Benson.mp3 |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3887
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 4:44 pm: |
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Just a quick tip -- If I'm not mistaken, Bruce Funk is a Republican. Honest public officials bleed both blue and red. |
Shaun Knapp
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Angry_utahan
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 8:44 pm: |
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I've voted Republican most of my life, and know many in the grass roots still abide the platform. I don't have a gripe against Republicans who adhere to the Party Platform, but more importantly stand for honesty and upholding the principles of the US Constitution. |
John Howard
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Harmonyguy
Post Number: 281
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? 
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 9:20 pm: |
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Hi Shaun - welcome to BBV!
I didn't see you mention it, but in the interest of full disclosure, are you the same Shaun Knapp currently running for office?
http://www.co.utah.ut.us/dept/clerkaud/Elections/Candidates.asp |
Shaun Knapp
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Angry_utahan
Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 9:33 pm: |
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I am that very one. |
Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 1967
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 1:57 am: |
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Good luck to you & other candidates to have a fair election.
There's nothing worse than putting in all the work and not knowing whether or not it matters because the machines could be rigged. |
Sharon M. Foster
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Smfoster
Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 3:34 am: |
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From today's New York Times op-ed pages:
March 27, 2006
Electronic Voting Glitches
To the Editor:
Re "Common Sense in Maryland" (editorial, March 23):
I am the chief Democratic election judge for District 21, Precinct 2, in Prince Georges County, Md. We have used the Diebold AccuVote-TSX machines since the 2002 primary election. From the start they did not encourage confidence in them.
When they were turned on in the 2002 elections, some of them refused to start unless we reseated the memory cards. In the 2002 primary, one of the machines chose to lock up just as the poor voter pushed the "cast ballot" button on the screen. The technician we got in to check the machine insisted that the vote was counted. Then why did we have 30 paper voter authority cards for the machine and only 29 votes recorded?
In the 2004 general election, two of our machines refused to start up. We got in another two machines, and one of them refused to use the electricity from the wall. Its internal battery was not enough to run the rest of the day, so we shut it down. These machines are quality only if you spell quality with a capital K.
Surely the Free State could find a far more reliable replacement than Diebold's TSX machines. The rest of the nation should, too. Preferably one with a good paper trail.
Paul D. Motzenbecker Jr.
University Park, Md.
March 23, 2006
==================
SF note: I am more convinced than ever that the only reliable voting method is the good old paper ballot. Simple, easy to use, can be tallied in full view of the public, and any average citizen can understand and witness the tally--full transparency, not a black box. |
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 474
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:26 am: |
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Mean time between failures on Flash memory is fairly long, hundreds of thousands of writes. This doesn't mean that you won't lose space (in some cases very quickly) but it does mean that on average that you have just as many instances where the failure is much, much later. Memory failure is possible, yet unlikely.
But if it's being used as a flashdisk (as it often is in items that are special purpose but are PC-based), then anything that you put into a file that hasn't been deleted eats space in the (F)ile (A)llocation (T)able. This is a very plausible reason for different amounts of free space on each machine, but it would point to sloppy clean up procedures after testing.
All of this points to one type of procedural sloppiness or another if it isn't nefarious. (Actually, even if it is nefarious, it's sloppy!)
I would love to see one of these, in the absence of that, do you have any screen shots? |
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 475
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:36 am: |
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Bev, if this is running under Windows, and writing windows database (Access or other databases that are Windows-app-generated-types), they could be real disk hogs it's very hard to say how much room they'd eat up, but it could be a very great deal. |
Brant Lamb
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Brantl
Post Number: 476
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
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Bev, if this is running under Windows, and writing windows database (Access or other databases that are Windows-app-generated-types), they could be real disk hogs it's very hard to say how much room they'd eat up, but it could be a very great deal. |
Bruce Sims
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Ubetchaiam
Post Number: 708
Registered: 06-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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The Microsoft Access 97/2000 is a full-featured multiuser relational database management system that designed for the Microsoft Windows operating systems (such as Windows 9x, Windows 2000 and up). Access 97/2000 is extremely visually oriented and easy to use. It makes extensive use of drag-and-drop and visual design for queries, forms, and reports. Access 97/2000 comes with an integrated development environment (IDE), including incremental compilation, a fully interactive visual debugger, breakpoints, and single step-through. These capabilities combine to make Microsoft Access an extremely powerful platform for developing client-server database solutions.
The maximum database size is 1 GB, but your database can include linked tables in other files, and its total size is limited only by available storage capacity. Number of characters in a Memo field can be up to 65,535 characters when entering data through the user interface or can be up to 1 GB when entering data programmatically.
With MSDE, which uses the jet db engine, one can go up to 2gigabytes; with the new sql server Express version of MSDE, the max db size is 4 gig because it uses a different db engine than 'Jet'. |
Clifford Lyon
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Clifflyon
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 12:19 pm: |
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I've posted a diary at DailyKos about this story with links back here.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/28/134521/609
It is critical that as many people as possible (who are registered there) go and recommend the diary so it get recommended.
There is also a very imformative post from Dow patten at www.OneUtah.org which goes into more detail about Utah's experience with the whole selection process. |
Steve Armstrong
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Starmstr
Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2006
Best of Black Box?
Votes: 1 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
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The desktop Access 97/2000 version described above isn't what would actually be running in the Windows CE environment inside the voting machine. The desktop software could be used to rapidly design the Access MDB database files which are then later installed and used on the machine, but accessed via a programmer's Jet Application Programmer's Interface (API). This Jet API is fully avaible to scripting. MDB files themselves can be directly hacked if file system access is possible.
It's a mischaracterization to say the desktop version of Microsoft Access provides client-server functionality. It is targeted for small, workgroup level data-sharing projects where the files are hosted on shared LAN drives.
It is LAN file-sharing friendly, assuming a Microsoft compatible file server, but it is not designed for network based transaction processing, making it a bad choice for any true client server requirement.
Jet is the Microsoft programmer's interface layer, which is fundamentally file-based, for reading and updating records to Access, or Excel, or other Microsoft Office file formats. Access itself uses Jet, and, if installed, so can Word and Excel, etc.
Access isn't close to true client server databases like Oracle, Sybase or SQL Server (MSDE) or even MySQL. These databases are designed for hundreds or thousands of simultaneous users and feature a network or socket interface and a number of nice features that insure a smooth flow of updates and data retrieval, and dynamic backup and replication.
Access is file system based, and therefore limited to local network use. There are software packages that can be used to give Access a network interface.
Access isn't really the sort of software anyone should use for a mission critical database application where client server functionality matters. For something of vital national importance, this may be an arguably very poor choice. |
Kathleen Wynne
Moderator
Username: Admin_ii
Post Number: 223
Registered: 08-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 1:09 pm: |
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Hi Cliff,
Welcome to BBV!
Thanks so much for linking our site to your's and helping us get the message out about the terrible injustice being perpetrated upon Emery County, Utah's election supervisor, Bruce Funk. By injustice, I mean the fact that Diebold acts as though they have the right and the power to come in and oust any election official who questions their machines' security. Who cares if they are interfering with the will of the people of Emery County, and are asserting pressure on the County Commissioners to force Mr. Funk to resign. All the more reason for him to stay and fight. All the more reason for all citizens who care about fair and honest elections to rise to the occasion and stand with Mr. Funk and openly express their support for him.
We really appreciate the enthusiasm in how you have taken effective action in helping us build a groundswell of support for Mr. Funk.
BBV advocates the "swarm" approach in achieving election reform, because it has proven to be the most effective way of keeping us in the fight. There is no greater power than citizens coming from all different directions in making their demand for change. A swarm is next to impossible to silence and, we are glad to report, has been the cause of a great deal of stress for dishonest election officials, politicians and voting machine vendors. Let us continue.
Keep up the great work!
Kathleen
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TRIPLE PROTECTION FOR ELECTION 2006 - STARTING NOW:
(1) Use Freedom of Information, public records requests ("All American Paper Chase")
(2) Try Dumpster Diving for Democracy
(3) Candid America Project - Don't leave home without your camcorder
HOW TO DO IT: http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/6/6.html
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Catherine Ansbro
Frequent Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Catherine_a
Post Number: 2034
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Thursday, April 6, 2006 - 1:42 pm: |
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http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/4/5/11636/85527/76#c76
See very revealing comment by viget at DailyKos. It's about their recent experience voting on a TSx. The dark-colored window covering their vote printout was closed, and the pollworker was annoyed when viget lifted up the dark window so they could verify their vote. |
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3999
Registered: 12-2004
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 9:07 am: |
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Okay, this is exactly what Jim March and Brad Friedman were referring to as the little brown door. It effectively will prevent many voters from verifying their ballot.
quote:I had no problems using the system, it all seemed pretty simple. I guess Missouri also must require a paper trail as before I could cast my ballot, the machine had to print out a copy. Here's where it gets interesting.
There's a little window in the lower right corner of the machine to view your ballot after it prints out (and before you cast it). A piece of plastic blocks that window, and you have to lift it to see the ballot. So, I go ahead and lift it, and I'm immediately accosted by the Republican judge. "What are you doing?" I politely explained that I'd just like to see my ballot and make sure that it matched up with my actual votes. She relented and said, okay, and I explained to her that I just wanted to make sure my vote counted. She smiled and nodded and said that's fine.
It wasn't that big a deal, except for the fact that you would have thought I was stealing from a store or something when I looked at my ballot. She was very confrontational. Furthermore, there is no explicit instruction on how you can inspect your ballot prior to casting it, the machine only notes that it has "printed" your ballot, and asks if you'd like to accept it and cast your ballot, or reject it and try again. Which begs the question, how can you accept a ballot you haven't seen? So I just figured there was this window there, and that might be where I could look for my ballot.
Thanks for catching this, Catherine. |
Joseph Hall
Voting Rights Forum Participant
Username: Joehall
Post Number: 61
Registered: 01-2005
Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?) | | Posted on Friday, April 7, 2006 - 10:29 am: |
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Here's a decent shot of the door... which I assume is closed when voters with sight impairments are using the audio ballot:
http://josephhall.org/tmp/TSx_unpacked.jpg |
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